Jack Straw has the right idea!

Gilly said:
My understanding of it, correct me if I'm wrong, is that it is a choice. They believe it helps them follow the Qu'ran but others may decide that the headscarf is enough.
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IT's not as simple as that. In Islam every muslim follows a school of thought. There are four prominent schools of thought of classical scholars. Each one abides to their rulings. One cannot simply pick and choose. Hence you get some muslims who pray slightly different to another. The same applies with women, some see it an oligation to cover their face whilst the other present that the opnions have evidence that suggest the hair/neck is sufficient to show covering.

It's very detailed.
 
Surely in that case, as they are with the religion they choose to follow, they're choosing the school of thought to follow too?

That means it is still a choice to wear it. Its not like they're being discriminated against for their hair colour, skin colour, place of birth, etc.
 
Can I ask a quick question ? If you are muslim and were a veil, what happens when you have a passport photo done / id badge etc etc .

Do you keep the veil on ? If so, you could basically be anyone. Sort of opens up the possibilities of cheating in tests and worse . . . .

R

Mehul
 
cleanbluesky said:
And to whom are they obliged? If it is to themselves, then it is obvious a matter of choice... if they have no choice in the matter, they should assert themselves.
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To their lord. They do assert themselves, or this wouldn't have been an issue.
 
Gilly said:
I don't believe thats the case. He asked his superiors if he could be posted elsewhere, and told them why. He didn't refuse to do his job and now Israel have stopped bombing the Lebanon he's perfectly fine about working anywhere his bosses choose to send him.
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wonder if i would get away with it when i'm an atheist and don't believe in religion. refusal to guard the pope? or abu hanza(sp)?

i respect peoples decisions but ill never understand false belief which in my eyes is all that religion is when people misread the quran (terrorists) and falsely preach something and change their minds(the pope on kids going to heaven today).
 
I have never actually had to conduct an interview with someone that wears the veil, I have made sure I have brought a woman into an interview if it is going to be one on one and that is going to make someone nervous and ill at ease.

I found the whole not shaking hands thing odd enough.

I can definitely see his point. To be honest I can't see a reason to be against removing the veil. Surely it is in the interests of the Muslim comunity to try and build understanding and trust, and having people in full dress is hardly going to encourage that.
 
dark_shadow said:
It's very detailed.
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For me, my foremost duty is to make the most of myself rather than to follow an existing social order even to my detriment

If you feel that for whatever reason you should hide yourself from the world, then you need to examine what others expect of you
 
Gilly said:
Surely in that case, as they are with the religion they choose to follow, they're choosing the school of thought to follow too?

That means it is still a choice to wear it. Its not like they're being discriminated against for their hair colour, skin colour, place of birth, etc.
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Yes but based on how they become muslims, if they believe the evidence from their chosen scholar is stronger than other opinions. They have to follow that.

This would be entirely different issue if an Islamic state existed.
 
dark_shadow said:
To their lord. They do assert themselves, or this wouldn't have been an issue.
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If it is an obligation to another, how are they asserting their will. A Lord is merely something you obey, and if you are obeying you are not free.
 
cleanbluesky said:
If it is an obligation to another, how are they asserting their will. A Lord is merely something you obey, and if you are obeying you are not free.
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Aren't muslim women the greatest example of a non-free people in the world today?
 
cleanbluesky said:
For me, my foremost duty is to make the most of myself rather than to follow an existing social order even to my detriment

If you feel that for whatever reason you should hide yourself from the world, then you need to examine what others expect of you
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You're like a broken record. You repetatively say it over and over again.

It's simple . . Convinced of an Ideology . . you follow. The women are there, it's you whom choses to believe that they hide themselves.
 
cleanbluesky said:
If it is an obligation to another, how are they asserting their will. A Lord is merely something you obey, and if you are obeying you are not free.
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That applies to every muslim . . and yes everyone is then a slave to their lord.

What don't you understand?
 
Gilly said:
Aren't muslim women the greatest example of a non-free people in the world today?
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I'm not sure if you're trying to wind me up, given that you have never made such a strong statement on the issue before but I will answer anyway.

I cannot tell you if this is the case, but whilst Muslim women may hide themselves from the world there are still practices that are far worse and even practices that we abide by in the UK. There are so many things wrong with the entire planet's attitude towards women that it makes me angry on occaision.
 
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