Jack Straw has the right idea!

Pez · 5 Oct 2006 at 19:44

wohoo said:
Yes they do, the face has to be visible for a passport photo.

Well thats that answered, thanks

Geoff · 5 Oct 2006 at 19:48

dark_shadow said:
IT's not as simple as that. In Islam every muslim follows a school of thought. There are four prominent schools of thought of classical scholars. Each one abides to their rulings. One cannot simply pick and choose. Hence you get some muslims who pray slightly different to another. The same applies with women, some see it an oligation to cover their face whilst the other present that the opnions have evidence that suggest the hair/neck is sufficient to show covering.

It's very detailed.

Then they're following a scholar's interpretation, not Allah's will, not the Word of God. Surely if Allah is great, and he cared one way or the other about this, he'd have put the three wrong schools of thought right by now?

david334 · 5 Oct 2006 at 19:49

cleanbluesky said:
SEND THEM BACK

Was that a good enough impression for ya?

100% agree

Well Said

David 334

Psyk · 5 Oct 2006 at 19:50

Yet another non-story. So he requests that people speak to him without a veil on. As long as he asks politely and he accepts it if they refuse, what's the problem? Muslim women can wear these things if they want, I'd question why they feel the need to, but it's up to them.

Gilly · 5 Oct 2006 at 19:53

helpimcrap said:
i read it as though gilly was agreeing with you there tbh.

^^

Van_Dammesque · 5 Oct 2006 at 19:56

Psyk said:
Yet another non-story. So he requests that people speak to him without a veil on. As long as he asks politely and he accepts it if they refuse, what's the problem? Muslim women can wear these things if they want, I'd question why they feel the need to, but it's up to them.

Playing devil's advocate, what would you think if someone refused to talk to you face to face and stood with their back facing you? Or how about you goto a job interview, refuse to shake hands and wear a mask (only showing your eyes), would you expect to get the job? Or stood with your back to the interviewer?

Raz · 5 Oct 2006 at 19:56

cleanbluesky said:
If it is an obligation to another, how are they asserting their will. A Lord is merely something you obey, and if you are obeying you are not free.

And who is free? We're all obeying one thing or another.

Psyk · 5 Oct 2006 at 20:01

Van_Dammesque said:
Playing devil's advocate, what would you think if someone refused to talk to you face to face and stood with their back facing you?

I'd be annoyed but if I had a job to do, I'd do it anyway. I see your point on the job interview thing, but the person interviewing me should understand if I were to explain my behaviour.

Stolly · 5 Oct 2006 at 20:03

wohoo said:
Yes they do, the face has to be visible for a passport photo.

Making them do what everyone else has to to is intollerant !

cleanbluesky · 5 Oct 2006 at 20:08

wohoo said:
For those who actually study islam and not just follow it blindly will realise that the intention of any form of hijab is to not attract attention to oneself

Which is an honourable concept in any ideology although I would argue that the idea is not to seek attention rather than to socially remove the ability of others to pay attention. This misunderstanding is a way of using the physical world to attempt to force something that should be completely internal

Stolly · 5 Oct 2006 at 20:08

Psyk said:
I'd be annoyed but if I had a job to do, I'd do it anyway. I see your point on the job interview thing, but the person interviewing me should understand if I were to explain my behaviour.

How about we say that they can cover their face in all situations, as is their will.

But anyone dealing with them be it their MP, a police officer, teacher, doctor can also cover their face with a clown mask and wig, as is also their will.

Because hiding the face in a face to face situation is either a problem in British society or it isn't.

Gilly · 5 Oct 2006 at 20:10

Stolly said:
Because hiding the face in a face to face situation is either a problem in British society or it isn't.

I'd say it is and I'd add that to do the same with them would only serve to exacerbate the situation and would be stepping down to their level.

cleanbluesky · 5 Oct 2006 at 20:12

Raz said:
And who is free? We're all obeying one thing or another.

Buddah was supposedly free, he freed his mind of the outside world and the demands it placed upon him. When you renounce your ego, you are free...

Let me give you an example of freedom of mind...

Buddhist story said:
Two monks were returning to the monastery in the evening. It had rained and there were puddles of water on the road sides. At one place a beautiful young woman was standing unable to walk accross because of a puddle of water. The elder of the two monks went up to a her lifted her in his alms and left her on the other side of the road, and continued his way to the monastery.

In the evening the younger monk came to the elder monk and with worried expression, asked "Sir, as monks, we cannot touch a woman ?"
The elder monk answered "yes, brother".
Then the younger monk asks again, "how is that you lifted that woman on the roadside ?"
The elder monk smiled at him and told him " I left her on the other side of the road, but you are still carrying her "

@if ®afiq · 5 Oct 2006 at 20:51

cleanbluesky said:
Buddah was supposedly free, he freed his mind of the outside world and the demands it placed upon him. When you renounce your ego, you are free...

There is a famous saying of the Prophet where, after fighting a battle, he says that they must now return from the lesser Jihad to the greater Jihad. When asked what the greater Jihad is, he replied the struggle against one's self.

cleanbluesky · 5 Oct 2006 at 21:15

@if ®afiq said:
There is a famous saying of the Prophet where, after fighting a battle, he says that they must now return from the lesser Jihad to the greater Jihad. When asked what the greater Jihad is, he replied the struggle against one's self.

I can understand why the term jihad can mean so many things. Today, I have been feeling up-tight about something I have encountered in my social life. I decided to go for a run, interval training (which involves runs and sprints and is quite arduous if done properly) and I have put my energy into that.
For some reason the physical struggle has helped clear the emotional stuggle that has been in my head.

VIRII · 5 Oct 2006 at 23:11

MehulLakhani said:
Can I ask a quick question ? If you are muslim and were a veil, what happens when you have a passport photo done / id badge etc etc .

Do you keep the veil on ? If so, you could basically be anyone. Sort of opens up the possibilities of cheating in tests and worse . . . .

R

Mehul

It explains the number of people locally driving who can't possibly have passed their driving tests legitimately...

VIRII · 5 Oct 2006 at 23:14

dark_shadow said:
That applies to every muslim . . and yes everyone is then a slave to their lord.

What don't you understand?

Why people who believe that nonsense choose to live here and expect everyone else to facilitate such beliefs.

VIRII · 5 Oct 2006 at 23:15

dark_shadow said:
A free man can chose what he wants to do.

That is right and if he chooses to force the females in his family to wear the veil he is free to chose to do that, shame the women don't get the same voice.

Teki187 · 5 Oct 2006 at 23:19

Welcome to Muslim England!

I would post some of my opinions, but im scared of how people would take them. Freedom of speech, never existed.

VIRII · 5 Oct 2006 at 23:19

Psyk said:
I'd be annoyed but if I had a job to do, I'd do it anyway. I see your point on the job interview thing, but the person interviewing me should understand if I were to explain my behaviour.

Why? I'm sure you'd then understand my refusal to interview you and wouldn't try and claim discrimination......