Jack Straw has the right idea!

MookJong said:
Unless your suggesting they should protest to tell us non Muslims "We're ok really, it's just a couple that are bad"....suerly we don't need them to do that do we?
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Ah you do get it. Well they don't have to do it, and I won't automatically assume that all Muslims support terrorism if they don't do it :) But it would be a nice bridge-building gesture wouldn't it? And isn't something like that desperately needed right now?
 
VIRII said:
Or if we look at it a little deeper we find ....

The British are really good at going elsewhere and taking money there, setting up businesses there, employing people there or simply retiring there on their own money at no cost to Spain whilst bringing wealth and economic benefit to Spain.
They don't protest at the lack of English being spoken nor do they demand others to print leaflets in English for their benefit and if they prefer English food they provide it for themselves.

What they do not do is arrive without a penny to their name, expect the local Govt to pick them up financially, house them, pay for their healthcare, educate their children (if they even take any) and generally feed and clothe them.

It is a very different type of immigration with some very different social benefits and costs to the native population. So the type of cliched comparison usually made between an Iranian immigrant coming here and a wealthy Brit going to Spain to retire is rather pointless and inaccurate.
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It seems to me that Asians have been pretty good at coming here, setting up businesses, etc. Take a look at the influx, for example, of Ugandan Asians in the Idi Amin days. They weren't exactly known for sitting on their rumps when they got here. In fact, much of the resentment at the time seemed to be precisely because they were prepared to work long hours that our own people weren't.

Nor, for that matter, are all Brits going to Spain (or other places) either wealthy or retired. Granted, many do retire abroad, but it's by no means all.

But, that wasn't the point I was making. Regardless of why you go to Spain (or wherever), whether it be to retire or to open a business and raise a family, it is incumbent (in my view) of ANY immigrant to adapt to suit their adopted nation, and not to expect it to be the other way round. But, Brit's abroad are pretty good (in my experience) of setting up 'little England' conclaves, and carrying on right as if they'd never left the UK, with often scant regard to local culture or customs.
 
Geoff said:
But, that wasn't the point I was making. Regardless of why you go to Spain (or wherever), whether it be to retire or to open a business and raise a family, it is incumbent (in my view) of ANY immigrant to adapt to suit their adopted nation, and not to expect it to be the other way round. But, Brit's abroad are pretty good (in my experience) of setting up 'little England' conclaves, and carrying on right as if they'd never left the UK, with often scant regard to local culture or customs.
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And the locals don't really have an issue with it because of all the money and wealth and subsequently jobs that they bring with them.

When Idi Amin got funny 30,000 people came here. A rather different scenario to the hundreds of thousands coming year on year now.
 
dark_shadow said:
To show everyone how lethal muslims are? :rolleyes:
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Is that supposed to be an answer? You appear to be lacking in the ability to explain why cartonns insult islam = demo and suicide bombers kill 50+ people in the UK does not = insult to Islam and therefore = demo.

Could it be that killing in the name of Islam (innocent people on tube trains) is NOT an insult to Islam after all?
 
VIRII said:
And the locals don't really have an issue with it because of all the money and wealth and subsequently jobs that they bring with them.

When Idi Amin got funny 30,000 people came here. A rather different scenario to the hundreds of thousands coming year on year now.
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My experience has been that while the locals may put up with it, they don't much like it. But again, whether it's 30,000 or not, my point wasn't about those coming here, but that the attitude of many Brits going abroad is little different to the attitude of immigrants coming here. We can moan about immigrants coming here and not integrating, but as a nation, when we go abroad, we do it there, too.
 
VIRII said:
Is that supposed to be an answer? You appear to be lacking in the ability to explain why cartonns insult islam = demo and suicide bombers kill 50+ people in the UK does not = insult to Islam and therefore = demo.

Could it be that killing in the name of Islam (innocent people on tube trains) is NOT an insult to Islam after all?
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No it's not an insult to Islam

(this was sarcastic by the way)
 
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Spawn said:
Awww diddums Virii, your all upset because i called you a sensationalist...well if the shoe fits then.....
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I'm not upset but I do think that you have a tendency to spout off insult in every post at everyone who disagrees with you, your favourite insult being to call people ignorant of course.
Spawn said:
Why do you lot keep harping on about muslims doing this and muslims doing that??, tbh i dont think a lot of muslims really have the time or effort to go out and protest...well other than the misguided fools who think its amusing to wave placards shouting out death to the west etc etc.
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What and the 8000 people who could get bothered enough by a comment about a veil? That is rather a lot of people isn't it. Rather a lot of ignorant people too :D
Spawn said:
I know i havent, only time i have these days is for myself and my xbox360...plus my job takes up most of my time if anything so time to protest is a non runner for me. Or is it now the case that you will dictate to me exactly how i use my time??:rolleyes:
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No-one has asked you or told you or suggested that you go and protest have they? I've simply asked someone to explain why they can find comments about a veil enough for 8000 to take to the streets but suicide bombers murdering people in this country in the name of Islam not a reason to be insulted.....
Spawn said:
You can call me whatever you like Virii...no skin off my nose tbh. Sadly you would be wrong to call me a fanatic but hey whatever floats your boat.
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Water floats my boat. I don't need to call you childish names to highlight your shortcomings. I thought you had more intellectual capability to discuss and debate without constantly being rude, maybe you're just ignorant and poorly brought up though.
Spawn said:
Anyways i still cant understand the big fuss over this veil issue, if a muslim woman wants to wear one then let her...or sorry is there a law against wearing it. Who are you to dictate what a person can wear and cant wear??, i mean its ok for your women to wear short skirts, bikini's and show a fair bit of flesh and generally dress like a **** but when a muslim woman wears a veil, burkha or hijaab...its like OMG!!!1111!!! terrorist alert etc etc. Fair enough it doesnt help break down communication barriers which is a valid reason as you cannot see a persons face. But the issue is now over and done with but seems like the sensationalists in here cant help but chomp at the bit some more:p.
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Why is it a case of YOUR women?
How is the issue over and done with? Clearly it is not if 8000 want to demo about it..... I guess they need to champ at the bit some more.....
"Our" women generally dress like ***** do they? Who are you to call them that? Oh yes, a muslim, unassailable of course, gods chosen :rolleyes:
Fit in or leave is the simple answer.
Covering the face is NOT culturally normal or acceptable here, if you can't deal with that, if you feel the need to be different to 99.99999% of the population then the problem is clearly yours.
 
MookJong said:
Maybe they don't associate themselfs in any way with the bombers it's like saying why don't all Christians start protesting when someone kills people in the name of the KKK.

As for protests at the cartoon, part of the religious teachings state that pictures of the prophet Mohammed cannot be depicted. It's like someone making a cartoon as a joke about somone you hold dear in your family, are you going to be happy about it?
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I think that I would rather they did that than blew my family up in the name of my religion......

These murders are in the name of Islam. If a cartoon can be insulting then a murder or 50 murders in the name of Islam is also insulting - or would be if such a high proportion of the muslim community did not think that the UK deserved it.....
 
Geoff said:
My experience has been that while the locals may put up with it, they don't much like it. But again, whether it's 30,000 or not, my point wasn't about those coming here, but that the attitude of many Brits going abroad is little different to the attitude of immigrants coming here. We can moan about immigrants coming here and not integrating, but as a nation, when we go abroad, we do it there, too.
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But we do it in such a way as we bring great benefits with us financially, create jobs and do not lean on their system to survive. We also do it in very small numbers.
If you only want to concentrate on one aspect and ignore all the other aspects which give the overall impact then go ahead, but it is a very narrow view.
 
MookJong said:
No it's not an insult to Islam

(this was sarcastic by the way)
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So even when discussing the murders of 50 people you can't give a straight answer and wonder why so many people no longer hold much respect for muslims?
 
VIRII said:
I think that I would rather they did that than blew my family up in the name of my religion......

These murders are in the name of Islam. If a cartoon can be insulting then a murder or 50 murders in the name of Islam is also insulting - or would be if such a high proportion of the muslim community did not think that the UK deserved it.....
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The nature of protests is that you protest against something directed at you.

If Jack Straw had come out and said I think all Mulsims are potentially murderers like the 7/7 bombers then the vast majority would protests to say this was untrue and that they didn't want to be associated with those people.

Why don't you speak to some muslim people, do you know any?
 
MookJong said:
The nature of protests is that you protest against something directed at you.

If Jack Straw had come out and said I think all Mulsims are potentially murderers like the 7/7 bombers then the vast majority would protests to say this was untrue and that they didn't want to be associated with those people.

Why don't you speak to some muslim people, do you know any?
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Yes. Lots. Do you?

And in what way is murdering 50 people in the name of Islam NOT directed at muslims?

Behead all those that insult Islam .... but suicide bombers don't insult Islam???? Don't tell me that you believe they go to heaven and get virgins lol (not of course that women are second class citizens to be given to men for good deeds as a reward ......)
 
VIRII said:
Yes. Lots. Do you?
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As I have stated before in other posts I have been friends with Muslims through school and University, known many through my fathers business and I currently work with two.

So what do the people you know say about the 7/7 bombings because the ones I know certainly didn't support it.
 
VIRII said:
And in what way is murdering 50 people in the name of Islam NOT directed at muslims?
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It's no more in the name of Islam than a White Power organisation killing in the name all White people, we have been here before.

Somones elses actions in my social group are not my actions.
 
@if ®afiq said:
I wonder how many forums members joined a protest about 7/7?
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7/7 wasn't done by forum members, in the name of the forums. I assure you, I am ready to tar and feather anyone who would do something bad in the name of certain things I care about
 
Spawn said:
generally dress like a **** but when a muslim woman wears a veil, burkha or hijaab...its like OMG!!!1111!!! terrorist alert etc etc. Fair enough it doesnt help break down communication barriers which is a valid reason as you cannot see a persons face. But the issue is now over and done with but seems like the sensationalists in here cant help but chomp at the bit some more:p.
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I'm curiously why you constantly call women who dress in bikinis '*****'... I don't think wearing little clothing is neccessarily associated with sluttiness. Do you think that Michelangelo's David was an example of sluttiness or art? Do not think that slutiness is based on sentiment rather than the manner in which people dress?
 
MookJong said:
Why don't you speak to some muslim people, do you know any?
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Is it not arrogant to assume that you have an insight into a topic?

I have known plenty. There are many who are more 'normal' by British standards or perhaps 'integrated' and some who have some very funny ideas. It does not help that many younger ones seem to be led astray and that their communities either do not know or do not care...
 
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