James Bulger documentary
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I’m not going to comment on the proximity of the prison to the “crime scene” as I don’t know what the policy is on that front, and I must confess I’ve never thought about the implications for the families of victims for a criminal to be nearby.
As to the issue of it being a “soft” prison or whatever you want to call it, I think this belies issies with our prison system. We shouldn’t be looking to send them to horrible, violent places. That doesn’t achieve anything, and will definitely hinder and possibility of rehabilitation.
As to your other post about wearing orange vests on site - a friend of mine did a civil engineering placement in Toxteth while at uni and they didn’t wear hi vis because it increased their risk of getting shot.
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We are all capable of such terrible acts. There's no such thing as someone being evil, as much as we all might describe them that way. Thompson and Venables had free will and they exercised that in the murder of Jamie Bulger. They wanted to kill a child, they'd thought about it for some time and they eventually executed their ambition.
You can "rehabilitate" people as much as you want but you cannot deny that people have free will and if they want to kill someone then they are going to do just that.
If you want to lay blame somewhere then really we should look at the parents. It's ultimately down to the parents to teach children right from wrong and, most importantly, that actions have consequences.
Parents aren't teaching kids discipline, my 2 children would walk all over their mother if it weren't for me sometimes. So kids don't learn that bad actions have bad consequences at a young age and then they go to school and teachers can't raise a finger to them. Kids pick this up straight away and they grow up with a warped opinion of the world, that they can do anything they like without repercussion.
Venables in particular had this way of thinking. This can be seen in the documentary with his mother dodging around the issue and saying things like "it's okay son, you didn't mean to do it. He put you up to it". Venables honestly thought he could do whatever he liked and that he would get away with it. It must have been quite the shock at first when he got sentenced.
After that I believe he just began to revel in his notoriety. The damage was done early doors though. It's too late for him now.
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It's not a soft prison. It's no holiday camp but it did insulate them from the consequences of their actions and that, I personally believe, could be part of the reason that Venables continues to reoffend.
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Lol. I'm having murder with my autocorrect on my phone. It was Croxteth that I had my drill stolen.
The problem is though that he's clearly been deemed as rehabilitated when he's been released. And he's clearly not. Either we need indeterminate sentence lengths until it's 100% certain someone has been rehabilitated but even then how can you be certain? Mistakes will happen and those mistakes do lead to people being hurt or even killed. The notion of rehabilitation is essentially an idealistic pipe dream.
Except it’s not, because it can and does work, here and in other countries. You have an exception here, but without numbers to hand I’d bet it works more often than not.
If you don’t believe in rehabilitation then surely the only logical conclusion is that you lock people up forever or you kill them at the first offence.
I'll try and look for a link but for first time prisoners I think it's the majority who serve up to 3 years reoffend. Beyond 3 years that begins to drop off and basically the longer they serve the less chance that they'll reoffend.
Solution? Longer sentences.
Not the original source but this supports it
http://open.justice.gov.uk/reoffending/prisons/
Partly true, when provoked (enough) most people could happily batter someone to death... but some people would do this to a stranger because they want to not for ideological, religious or because the "powers that be" told them to but because they want to.
No that wasn't the point I was addressing, you seemingly want to arrest him based on a drugs test. Point is you'll probably need to catch him in possession of the drugs.
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I think you are misinterpreting that information.
Generally punishment system is only a small part of the complex rule of law. You might be able to draw conclusion from re-offending rates alone but those conclusions wont include the bigger picture. Going very harsh on sentencing has shown to prevent first time offenders from re-offending but not done much to deter first time offenders and may even contribute to it in other ways such as creating neglected areas of society where poor youths from fatherless families seek brotherhood in the gang world, something fairly common in both first and third world countries where sentencing is long and harsh.
I am not saying we shouldn't have harsh sentences, just that the justice system is a delicate and complex thing made up of many parts that interact and effect each-other in many ways.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Justice_Project
http://data.worldjusticeproject.org/
Interesting that the top countries of the index focus on rehabilitation over retribution and many call these countries 'soft' but the stats behind them don't lie that it can work depending on how you shape your system. The UK gets an impressive 11th overall with pretty decent score specifically on the criminal justice system.
It can and does work sometimes.
Releasing somebody under license on the probability that they might be rehabilitated and will not re-offend involves a risk.
The risk is that if you have got it wrong, somebody else is going to end up a victim.
If somebody is a serial shoplifter the consequences of getting it wrong are not very high (Even so "More often than not" does not come anywhere close enough to acceptable risk to me, even for something like shoplifting)
If the consequences of getting it wrong is a toddler being kidnapped and tortured to death then I don't really think any level of risk is acceptable.
Those who think that it is should consider what level of risk you do consider "acceptable" for the release of people like Thompson and Vennables and how you would justify your argument for "Acceptable Risk" to Denise Bulger Mk2 should a re-offense occur and we have another murdererd baby to account for.
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I find it absolutely shocking that the authorities know this, and he is still free.
Having Googled, looking for the original story it's actually worse than I thought. The authorities know, and he gets free methodone on the NHS. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/the-2m-junkie-1611517. It's also been repeated many times in articles since.
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Soldato
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I very much doubt it's hard to find heroin on a addict, especially as this one was meant to be monitored for his entire life.
This is exactly what bothers me how many chances do you give until he gets the chance to kill again, because if that happens there will absolute carnage on the streets because the authorities didn't listen, this country is a broken mess.
Soldato
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Some of you people could really benefit from Buddhism values. Jesus Christ.
Death penalty is an barbaric act inflicted upon others for pure revenge and blood lust. Whatever the act they have done, it never justifies murdering them afterwards.
The old Quote by Fyodor Dostoevsky, "You can judge a society by how well it treats it's prisoners" should be taught more often.
Even the most evil people can still be of use and benefit to society, lock them up and put them to work. I don't care if they are breaking rocks or making number plates, they doing something useful.
Personally, I have always been fond of chain-gangs. We can put these people to work fixing our roads and cleaning our beaches of rubbish, can do it all at night too, so few people get to see them.
Anyone ever remember the movie Running Man (1987) with Arnold? The beginning of that movie shows prisoners working, always been fond of that movie and the explosive collars to keep them in check.
Alright Mr Dear Leader Kim Jong-un.
Death penalty is an barbaric act inflicted upon others for pure revenge and blood lust. Whatever the act they have done, it never justifies murdering them afterwards.
The old Quote by Fyodor Dostoevsky, "You can judge a society by how well it treats it's prisoners" should be taught more often.
Even the most evil people can still be of use and benefit to society, lock them up and put them to work. I don't care if they are breaking rocks or making number plates, they doing something useful.
Personally, I have always been fond of chain-gangs. We can put these people to work fixing our roads and cleaning our beaches of rubbish, can do it all at night too, so few people get to see them.
Anyone ever remember the movie Running Man (1987) with Arnold? The beginning of that movie shows prisoners working, always been fond of that movie and the explosive collars to keep them in check.
Alright Mr Dear Leader Kim Jong-un.
Some people are pure evil and for which we need to bring back capital punishment.
Such ****s dont deserve specialised care when taxpayers money can be better spent on just giving such sub human beings the lethal injection.
Good riddance and itll serve as an effective deterrent.
Such ****s dont deserve specialised care when taxpayers money can be better spent on just giving such sub human beings the lethal injection.
Good riddance and itll serve as an effective deterrent.
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Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm getting this from Wikipedia) - but from what I've read it was just Venables that ended up in Red Bank in Newton Le Willows. Thompson was sent to Barton Moss Secure Care Centre.
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As far as I am aware they both went to Red Bank. Perhaps Thompson was moved on. If someone can say for certain then that'd be appreciated.