James Bulger documentary

Some people are pure evil and for which we need to bring back capital punishment.
Such ****s dont deserve specialised care when taxpayers money can be better spent on just giving such sub human beings the lethal injection.
Good riddance and itll serve as an effective deterrent.

It doesnt work as a deterrent.

Implementing a system which allows for criminals to appeal for their case to be looked at is crazy expensive.

A system with the death penalty has inherent flaws in how fair, consistent and effective it is in creating a society with a half decent rule of law.

There are countries with the death sentence first and third world and they rank far lower down on the list than ours on the index. The US justice system i would say is more messed up than their healthcare and pharmaceutical industry!
 
It has made me feel sick after just watching this.

Where they say in interview that they was throwing bricks at him but he kept getting back up crying, so they carried on throwing bricks at him.

Cannot get that image out of my head. Horrible. Wish I never watched it now.
 
It has made me feel sick after just watching this.

Where they say in interview that they was throwing bricks at him but he kept getting back up crying, so they carried on throwing bricks at him.

Cannot get that image out of my head. Horrible. Wish I never watched it now.
It does make me wonder why anyone thinks it’s worth this being raked up again and again.
 
Yeah I can’t bare to relearn this horror. Every time I’ve had snippets over the years it just plays on my mind, can’t think about anything else and even had a nightmare.

Heard stories people challenged the boys asking why he was hurt and they replied saying he was lost and they were taking him to the police... those people have also had to live knowing what happened and they should have really done more.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss :(
 
It doesnt work as a deterrent.

While discussion of the Death Penalty is somewhat OT as regards Thompson and Vennables as ten year olds (It might not be as regards their additional re-offending as adults mind)

You cannot say that it does not act as a deterrent. All you can say is that it does not deter the people who are not deterred.

It is difficult to scientifically ascertain the numbers of people who are deterred because obvious...:)

However, anecdotal evidence is available.

After Britain abolished capital punishment the Murder rate almost immediately started to rise, quite sharply really.

Today, especially when you allow for the fact that trauma care is far better than it was 60 years ago, the effective Murder rate (IE the rate at which murderous assaults take place that would almost certainly have resulted in death and the noose for the murderer 60 years ago) are probably ten times or even more the rate that they were back then.

Not only that but the nature of these modern murderous assaults are quite diferent to the sorts of assault that happened 60 years ago and involve assaults of a sort that simply didnt happen back in Pierrepoints day. (Or if they did were really rather rare)

Of course, then as now, You got people who killed in rage on the spur of the moment and of course the classic planned murders (Money, revenge, or even simply because they enjoyed it) by people who really thought they would get away with it. Obviously such people are unlikely to be deterred by the prospect of execution because they either were not thinking straight or because they thought they would not get caught.

You also got street gangs fighting one another, and they hurt each other too, sometimes badly (Face slashing was common). But they were generally very careful indeed to avoid inflicting injuries that might actually kill. Even at the height of the Mods and Rockers, actual deaths were very rare indeed.
Housebreakers and even bank robbers would either flee or submit to arrest rather than run the risk of actualluy killing somebody, even if they were armed.

You may joke about it now, but "Its a fair cop Guv" was actually a very common comment on arrest as recorded in court transcripts of the time.

What you did not get was the casual street knifings, street robberies with violence, householders being beaten to death in "Botched" burglaries that are now daily news to the point that most people just accept it as part and parcel of daily life. Sure these things did happen in the past, but they were very rare.

The really shocking thing about the Craig/Bentley case wasn't so much that Bentley was Hanged, and Craig wasn't (Which was seen as being unfair. many people felt it Should have been both or neither, preferably both)

No, the shocking thing was that the crime happened at all. Nowadays nobody bats an eye at the idea of a pair of teenagers engaging in a murderous armed robbery. But back then it was just as unusual and shocking as the idea of a pair of ten year olds murdering a toddler was back in 1993.

Elsewhere in the world,

In Texas, Abolition resulted in a similar sharp rise in what would previously have been capital cases, on reintroduction, the rate fell. So, despite the fact that only a small proportion of capital sentences are ever actually carried out, even in Texas. there is a strong inference that the threat of the noose/needle/whatever does affect peoples criminal behavior. (As indeed, does "Three Strikes" even if it only means that incorrigibles move to states without "Three Strikes" rules, which they do...).

Agin, America has very diferent problems with violent crime than the UK (Well, at least in the past anyway. Sadly they are becoming more similar recently) So making a direct comparison between the UK and Texas is not really possible, however the anecdotal evidence in both cases is that the prospect of execution does affect peoples behaviour. It wont necesarrily make everybody less likly to kill, but it does seem to affect the majority.
 
Two words...sharia law...

These 2 evil little cretins would have been finished there and then if U.K. had sharia law lol;).


















And before all the muslim/Islam haters flame me, im joking ;) I don’t want sharia law in this country
 
it says they have world wide annonymity.. how can this be the case? if I went to a different country and tried to search for them, surely UK has no jurisdiction in that country?

Two words...sharia law...

These 2 evil little cretins would have been finished there and then if U.K. had sharia law lol;).

And before all the muslim/Islam haters flame me, im joking ;) I don’t want sharia law in this country

Joking or not - I dont think shariah law applies to minor.. you have to be an adult to get punishments..
 
it says they have world wide annonymity.. how can this be the case? if I went to a different country and tried to search for them, surely UK has no jurisdiction in that country?
well isnt that what happens when the government creates a new ID for you?
They obviously get given new passports and probably fake birth certificates too, so how would other countries know who they were? do you think the uk government informs all the countries of the world when someone gets a new identity?
its just some obvious thing that I presume the tabloids are trying to claim to make it sound more explosive than it really is
 
do you think the uk government informs all the countries of the world when someone gets a new identity?

Do I recall correctly that the Australian government a while back demanded reassurance that one or both of them had not moved to Australia under their new identities?
 
The incident is grim and tragic. I do however find it difficult to have venomous spite for the murderers though (as some people on here seem like to) - they were only children. It’s not a normal thing to wonder around at that age without parent supervision, let alone murdering a poor child in a grusome way! Just a total failure from parents as much anything. Ultimately, just very sad and tragic.
 
There is a case for arguing that that is precisely what they should be encouraged to do, especially if the tickets are one way to somewhere like Venezuela or DPRK

Understand what you saying, but I would't feel easy about transferring the "problems" to an other country so innocents over there can suffer them.
 
I think many of these people (not necessarily these 2) can only have a place in society through some type of forced labour or as test subjects. Keeping them alive locked up forever or killing them are awfully expensive options so why not use them in such a way that the rest of us get some benefit from their existance?
 
I think many of these people (not necessarily these 2) can only have a place in society through some type of forced labour or as test subjects. Keeping them alive locked up forever or killing them are awfully expensive options so why not use them in such a way that the rest of us get some benefit from their existance?
You mean like rehabilitating them to be productive members of society? That would allow us some benefit from their existence.
 
You mean like rehabilitating them to be productive members of society? That would allow us some benefit from their existence.
You and your rehabilitation. Have you considered that the rehab given to the boys was adequate. After all, Thompson hasn’t reoffended but Venabkes has. Maybe Venables is actually so badly damaged that he’s beyond all rehabilitation.
 
I just caught the end of this as the GF watched it.

I’m so angry right now about the justice systems way of dealing with this.

Knowing the details of what they did and hearing what they thought when he kept getting up and his injuries and seeing the picture of him as a child at the end....****...
 
The incident is grim and tragic. I do however find it difficult to have venomous spite for the murderers though (as some people on here seem like to) - they were only children. It’s not a normal thing to wonder around at that age without parent supervision, let alone murdering a poor child in a grusome way! Just a total failure from parents as much anything. Ultimately, just very sad and tragic.
From wiki:
Thompson and Venables were considered by the court to be capable of "mischievous discretion", meaning an ability to act with criminal intent as they were mature enough to understand that they were doing something seriously wrong. A child psychiatrist, Dr Eileen Vizard, who interviewed Thompson before the trial, was asked in court whether he would know the difference between right and wrong, that it was wrong to take a young child away from his mother, and that it was wrong to cause injury to a child. Vizard replied, "If the issue is on the balance of probabilities, I think I can answer with certainty." Vizard also said that Thompson was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder after the attack on Bulger. Dr. Susan Bailey, the Home Office forensic psychiatrist who interviewed Venables, said unequivocally that he knew the difference between right and wrong.
It was premeditated and the two of them knew it was wrong. Shameful parenting is a factor, but only a small part. I seriously doubt either of them was instructed on how to abduct and torture a two year old child - that was entirely their own doing.
 
It was premeditated and the two of them knew it was wrong. Shameful parenting is a factor, but only a small part. I seriously doubt either of them was instructed on how to abduct and torture a two year old child - that was entirely their own doing.

Parenting is the biggest factor. The children might have known what they were doing was wrong but they did not fully comprehend the seriousness of it, how could they? their brains are still forming, they haven't even gone through puberty
These children were doomed the moment they were born, thankfully we have social services to crack down on stuff like this.
 
Parenting is the biggest factor. The children might have known what they were doing was wrong but they did not fully comprehend the seriousness of it, how could they? their brains are still forming, they haven't even gone through puberty
These children were doomed the moment they were born, thankfully we have social services to crack down on stuff like this.
If bad parenting was the biggest factor then we'd expect to see this type of atrocity happen far more frequently. Not every abused child from a broken home tortures to death a young kid. I'm not saying the parents are absolved of any responsibilty, of course they played a part, but these two knew what they were doing. Even the psychiatrist's professional opinion was that they knew right from wrong
 
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