January Transfer Window 2017/18

Disagree on Wijnaldum, hes decent and a worthy squad player at least.

Doubt Liverpool will get a keeper at this time. Wouldn't be surprised to see no other signings this window.
 
Lindelof has been good for the last month :confused:
Give over! The best you could say is he's not been as terrible in the last month, although his performance vs Bristol City was shocking. Rojo didn't have a great game but how he kept getting the blame for that result when both their goals came from Lindelof being miles out of position.
 
Don't really understand why everyone is so shocked at the fee to be honest, it was only a matter of time.

The fact that the selling team are potentially in a relegation scrap - 2 points above B'mouth in 18th - and selling one of their best players (ignoring current form admittedly) also works against the buying club.

It will be a lot more shocking when the rest of the league start catching up by paying £30-40m for players
 
As for our finances. If Liverpool signing VVD for £75m means we can't afford to sign anybody else then I'd agree with you DM but it doesn't so I don't. For the past 2 seasons, despite the increased TV revenue, increased match day revenue and qualifying for the CL, we've barely spent a penny - maybe £20m net over the 2 seasons. We've had money to spend but Klopp hasn't been willing to just spend for the sake of it - if he can't get the players he wants then he'll wait until he can rather than go out and sign somebody for the sake of it.

Errm that is patently false simply from basic logic, spending 75mil on a defender instead of 40mil means you can't spend another 35mil on a second player... spending more on a single player directly, ignoring finances, prevents you spending further on other players. However you're completely and utterly forgetting or ignoring Liverpool's transfer spending doesn't equate to just the past 2 years. Your amortisation costs on players was over 65mil last year, up from 59 mil the year before. You made a 20mil loss in 15/16 and are financing a stadium expansion. Increased revenue doesn't equate to increased profit directly unless other costs stay the same, your wage bill has risen extremely fast. The increase in revenue is also weak, 4mil increased revenue between 2015 and 2016. Wages went up 42million from 166million in 15/16 to 208million in 16/17.

Your revenue went up 4million and your wages went up 42million but you think you're rolling in cash and can easily spend 75mil on a player without it being a problem, you're crazy if you believe that. City spending 75mil effects their transfer budget, Chelsea spending 75mil effects their transfer budget, Liverpool, with significantly lower revenue absolutely have their spending power effected by spending 75mil on a single player, suggesting otherwise flies in the face of all logic.

Why is it exactly that Liverpool managed to persuade a few players to Liverpool over City or other clubs.... hint, 42mil increase in wages. It's no different to what I've said about Arsenal, you can choose to spend big on transfers and less on wages or you can eat up your transfer budget by offering bigger wages which lets you buy less players. You aren't and won't make a 75mil profit this year, in fact with that purchase and no major sales as in previous years you are likely to make a heavy loss now this season and further increase the wages again with contract renewals and with the kind of wage a CB will demand when his transfer costs 75million. The only way they won't make a HUGE loss is with a massive sale.
 
Amazed he went for that much but if he helps their defence it will be worth it. Hes young and knows the league. Its Liverpools biggest weakness so if they sort that top 4 should be a given.
 
I really don't see why people are so amazed at £75m for VvD. He's one of, if not the best CB in the league. Liverpool have cash on hip and a problem to solve, to which they saw him as the best answer. He had 4 years left on his deal.

It's quite possible that City don't think he's worth the money. But then they don't really have the same problems at CB that Liverpool have. Nor are they constricted to buying what can be considered proven talent. They can go out and spend £40/50m several times on players that are potentially better than they have and potentially a better fit for them than VvD. They operate in a slightly different market with different risk/reward constraints. City are also in a different moment regarding team development. They'll be looking for a long term successor to Kompany and not necessarily a straight replacement, so a £75m top wage 26 year old isn't necessarily their best fit. It is however exactly what Liverpool need squadwise.

Yeah, it's a lot of money, but it's understandable.
 
Errm that is patently false simply from basic logic, spending 75mil on a defender instead of 40mil means you can't spend another 35mil on a second player... spending more on a single player directly, ignoring finances, prevents you spending further on other players. However you're completely and utterly forgetting or ignoring Liverpool's transfer spending doesn't equate to just the past 2 years. Your amortisation costs on players was over 65mil last year, up from 59 mil the year before. You made a 20mil loss in 15/16 and are financing a stadium expansion. Increased revenue doesn't equate to increased profit directly unless other costs stay the same, your wage bill has risen extremely fast. The increase in revenue is also weak, 4mil increased revenue between 2015 and 2016. Wages went up 42million from 166million in 15/16 to 208million in 16/17.

Your revenue went up 4million and your wages went up 42million but you think you're rolling in cash and can easily spend 75mil on a player without it being a problem, you're crazy if you believe that. City spending 75mil effects their transfer budget, Chelsea spending 75mil effects their transfer budget, Liverpool, with significantly lower revenue absolutely have their spending power effected by spending 75mil on a single player, suggesting otherwise flies in the face of all logic.

Why is it exactly that Liverpool managed to persuade a few players to Liverpool over City or other clubs.... hint, 42mil increase in wages. It's no different to what I've said about Arsenal, you can choose to spend big on transfers and less on wages or you can eat up your transfer budget by offering bigger wages which lets you buy less players. You aren't and won't make a 75mil profit this year, in fact with that purchase and no major sales as in previous years you are likely to make a heavy loss now this season and further increase the wages again with contract renewals and with the kind of wage a CB will demand when his transfer costs 75million. The only way they won't make a HUGE loss is with a massive sale.

Sorry, I thought we were going to have a sensible conversation. Yes, Liverpool spending £75m on VVD means they have less to spend elsewhere. It does not however mean that they now cannot afford to make the signings they want to in the future which I assume was your point. If it wasn't then your point was totally pointless :) Amortisation costs in the context of what was being discussed is also totally meaningless. Amortisation is a paper cost, not a cash cost. As for the stadium expansion - one thing the club was always very clear about was that it had to be cash positive. In other words, the increased revenue had to cover all financing costs and leave money left over - it's also reported that financially the new stand has far exceeded expectations. I'm not sure how you've got Liverpool's wagebill for last season when the accounts haven't been released yet - the figure you quoted is for the previous season. In fact, all the figures you've quoted are prior to the increased tv deal, stadium expansion and CL money that I mentioned.

If Liverpool could afford to pay that £200m odd in wages, while spending £30-40m per season net on players in previous seasons then, with the extra £50m odd in TV money, £40m odd in CL money plus whatever surplus was left over from the stadium expansion, we're now in a position where we can afford to spend a fair bit more than that, especially when in the 2 years previous we've not spent much at all. That's not to say Liverpool are rolling in money but these sorts of figures are easily affordable :)

I'm not sure if you don't understand amortisation, paper profits/losses and EBITDA or you're intentionally twisting and turning to suit whatever argument you're trying to make. On the paper profits and losses a football club makes and the massive loss Liverpool will now make without a sale - actually no they won't :p The cost on the accounts of this signing is £20-25m per season, most of that will be covered by the profit (paper profit) from the sale of Sakho alone. Liverpool have sold very well over the last couple of seasons so on the accounts they should be doing quite well and our net outlay on transfers has been well within our EBITA (actual cash profits the club makes before all paper write downs) so from a cash flow point of view we're fine too. I sincerely mean this in the nicest possible way, you do not have a clue about Liverpool's finances judging by your post.

And you're now saying VVD chose us over City? 1 post ago City didn't want him because he was a waste of money. Talk about changing your argument to suit whatever point you're trying to make.
 
Coutinho out? If he's moving in the summer that covers the transfer fee's of VVD & Keita. Interesting about the wage increase though..

Yes, I expect that to be the case, though it's still a case of you can spend the lets say 120mil they get from Coutinho in any way and dumping it all on one overpriced player still prevents them spending that money and getting better value out of it.

Sorry, I thought we were going to have a sensible conversation. Yes, Liverpool spending £75m on VVD means they have less to spend elsewhere. It does not however mean that they now cannot afford to make the signings they want to in the future which I assume was your point.If it wasn't then your point was totally pointless :) Amortisation costs in the context of what was being discussed is also totally meaningless. Amortisation is a paper cost, not a cash cost.

A paper cost isn't pointless, from the point of your finances, there is no cash, there is only what goes on the books. If you didn't show the amortisation then you'd have 65mil higher profits in that season, but the season in which the players were brought would have those numbers added to them, so at the end of the day the actual difference on the books is £0. Your ability to spend money depends on the actual profits of the club, the cash it brings in and the financial fair play also limits the losses you can make, writing off amortisation while at the same time claiming I don't know anything about finances is embarrassing and your general way of discussing, bring up something you think people don't understand then tell them they don't know what they are talking about... only of course when they disagree with you. Amortisation costs are relevant to your finances and saying otherwise couldn't be more wrong, it's also funny because whenever someone else talks about their club and what they can spend you bring up amortisation constantly.

Anyway the point I was making was both, 75mil on a single player for a club with finances FAR below the other clubs spending similar amounts on single players is absurd and will absolutely hit you both long and short term.


As for the stadium expansion - one thing the club was always very clear about was that it had to be cash positive. In other words, the increased revenue had to cover all financing costs and leave money left over - it's also reported that financially the new stand has far exceeded expectations. I sincerely mean this in the nicest possible way, you do not have a clue about Liverpool's finances judging by your post.

This makes zero sense, everyone who ever made a stadium expansion or built a new stadium did to make more money, well done for stating the obvious. But no one makes a stadium and pays it off straight away. If that was possible every single club would do it immediately. Arsenal increased profits by nearly 50mil, but we borrowed 300mil to afford it and we're still paying off that loan and will be for another ~15 years. Cash positive doesn't mean you'll have huge profits from it immediately, it means the incoming should pay off the spending for it slowly over time. It's not going to have a massive impact on profit, it will increase revenue but you've also got to take the hit for building it into account.

And you're now saying VVD chose us over City? 1 post ago City didn't want him because he was a waste of money. Talk about changing your argument to suit whatever point you're trying to make.

More of your selective and strange arguing... how is this changing my argument in the slightest? City offer 50mil and 120k a week, Liverpool offer 75mil and 170k a week.... City decide he's a waste of money at 75mil/170k a week and decide to look elsewhere for better value. Somehow you believe this is mutually exclusive things and I've changed my argument, which is funny because of how amortisation is either really important or not at all depending on the argument you're making.

Your finances do not list individual transfer fees in the years you make them anywhere, they ONLY list amortisation, it's directly linked to your profit loss and is the only way transfer fees are represented in your finances, to talk about them like they are meaningless is laughable, the cash paid and when is what is irrelevant when talking about finances, the only relevant thing is the amortisation costs.
 
I really don't see why people are so amazed at £75m for VvD. He's one of, if not the best CB in the league. Liverpool have cash on hip and a problem to solve, to which they saw him as the best answer. He had 4 years left on his deal.

Is he really the best CB in the league? Doesn't that claim happen constantly and it changes every year? In reality defences work together, take one guy out of it and he can look completely different in another team, we've seen that time and time again including with half of the people Liverpool have bought recently. Personally I don't rate him as the best, I think Alder looks brilliant, Sanchez has been amazing, bailly is excellent, Otamendi has been absolutely amazing this year, etc. I think Vertonghen looks about 10 times better with Alder and Sanchez. I don't think VVD is better than any of them and there are loads of great CBs at other clubs around europe. Paying 75mil while not being one of the super clubs with a 500mil + revenue is crazy to me.
 
Give over! The best you could say is he's not been as terrible in the last month, although his performance vs Bristol City was shocking. Rojo didn't have a great game but how he kept getting the blame for that result when both their goals came from Lindelof being miles out of position.

He got man of the match in two of the games I believe.

And no he wasn't at fault for either goal, McTominay was caught ball watching and didn't track the runner.
 
He got man of the match in two of the games I believe.

And no he wasn't at fault for either goal, McTominay was caught ball watching and didn't track the runner.

Which 2 games were these? And whether other players made mistakes too, he was still miles out of position for both goals.

DM, again in the nicest possible way, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You claimed that Liverpool would record a huge loss as a result of this deal without a big sale. You've claimed that we won't be able to afford to sign other players we need as a result, implied that we're spending to or beyond our limits despite spending little to nothing on transfers in the past 2 seasons due to our increased wage bill. All of this is complete and utter nonsense.

From both a FFP/paper profit/loss point of view or actual cash point of view, everything you've said is nonsense. Liverpool's last set of accounts showed a small loss - from a FFP point of view (once you take away costs that aren't included) we'd have been in profit. That's despite hefty exceptional costs from sacking Rodgers and his staff, that massive wage and amortisation bill that you mention. So before all the increased revenue I mentioned (and remember, costs related to stadium improvements aren't included in FFP but revenue generated is) Liverpool could afford to spend a lot from a FFP point of view, especially when they made a huge paper profit the year prior to that :) From actual cash profits point of view, again, Liverpool's net out lay on transfers has been well within the EBITDA generated by the club.

Again DM, everything you've claimed and your entire underlying point is wrong I'm afraid. Yes, VVD cost a hell of a lot of money but this deal is very affordable to us.

And a quick point on the stadium (I'm not sure what I said that didn't make sense to you) - Ian Ayre was quoted as saying that the club's forecast was to repay the loan within 5-6 years while still leaving some excess money left over, and again, it's been reported that the new stand has exceeded expectations from a financial point of view.
 
The price for a top player now is around £100m+, where as before it was £50-60m. So while VvD is expensive, it falls in line with the current transfer market and supply and demand. Maybe he'll be a flop but that can happen with any transfer for numerous reasons. I'm not sure he's the absolute best CB around or close to it, but he's very aggressive and versatile which will fit Klopp's system well.

Mourinho said Pogba would look pretty cheap before too long and that's already the case, although he's not playing all that well at the moment, but still.

While there are always examples of great young players being bought cheaply, that will start to fizzle out now. Gabriel Jesus is one such example but he could just as easily have been rubbish.
 
According to twitter we signed some cb called akanji from basel, never heard of him myself but least it's a cb if true may finally mean new defence
 
According to twitter we signed some cb called akanji from basel, never heard of him myself but least it's a cb if true may finally mean new defence
You're at it again Mark! And you had the cheek to question my news yesterday when it was coming from reputable journos! :p
 
You're at it again Mark! And you had the cheek to question my news yesterday when it was coming from reputable journos! :p
Look I didn't call it ****ter this time :p what more do you want well okay technically I did now.... Anyway I only did that cause we had signed dijk about 8 times lol :p
 
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