Japanese Grand Prix 2011, Suzuka Circuit - Race 15/19

[deuse]

the onboard replay showed that he was not even looking in his mirrors, he just used it as an excuse

Seb used his fine to block Jenson, same with Alonso and MS etc at Monza, maybe McLaren can install larger ones for Lewis if he is having problems, also quite a safety concern to admit Lewis can't use his mirrors.

So you're say Vimto is lying?

"Sebastian Vettel said he had no idea Jenson Button was alongside him when they nearly made contact at the start of the Japanese Grand Prix."

Make your mind up

 

[arknor]

mirrors has been an excuse for god knows how long and every team knows it they do a good enough job until you need an excuse

 

[Kenai]

the band wagon opinion on here that he's a below average

lolwut, i've seen no such bandwagon

 

[Mr Men]

So you're say Vimto is lying?

"Sebastian Vettel said he had no idea Jenson Button was alongside him when they nearly made contact at the start of the Japanese Grand Prix."

Make your mind up

Yes as they showed Jenson in the F1 Forum, did you watch it? Seb clearly looks in his mirrors as he blocks Jenson.

 

[Mr Men]

Because its Lewis, and people just won't let it go.

Nobody seems to be slating Button for not using his mirrors in Canada. Nobody is slating Webber for driving straight into the back of Schumacher. nobody seems to be acknowledging the numerous times the mirrors have been deemed fairly useless. Its just Hamilton this, Hamilton that, its all pathetic. I genuinely feel sorry for the guy, he can do nothing right as people will always pull him apart.

I guarantee that if he stuck it on pole in Korea and won the race with some epic driving, people would still find something to moan at him about. At least the BBC article had the decency to say he is a great driver making mistakes, rather than the the band wagon opinion on here that he's a below average liability just winging his way through on McLarens cash.

Multiple other incidents with other drivers are being flat out ignored, while people persist on analysing Hamilton to the nth degree in search of something to have a go at him about.

And now I will be branded a Hamilton fanboy, and Mr Men and Arknor will attempt to look clever by trying to bash me down. Fact is, I'm just sticking up for a driver who is being unfairly slated by everyone around him. I would do the same for any other driver (with the possible exception of Teflonso).

You can be a fanboy all you like, I really don't care if you see nothing wrong with him ever, just stop crying about others who are more open minded

I apologise if I have upset you in any way.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Di Resta will stay at Force India until 2012, then move to Merc for 2013 (replacing Schumacher). Said it once, and will say it again.

Williams should drop Maldonado. Don't care who replaces him, the guy is an idiot.

Hulk needs a drive, Senna deserves a drive and I can't see Kubica coming back for 2012.

 

[sunama]

Love it!!!

 

[arknor]

Di Resta will stay at Force India until 2012, then move to Merc for 2013 (replacing Schumacher). Said it once, and will say it again.

say it all you like schumacher has an option on 2013 if he wants it, hes also a good friend of Dieter Zetsche.
if mercedes build a car that can get podiums or win races you wont be seeing Di Resta ar merc unless rosberg leaves.

lets not forget since china which was only the 3rd race of the season schumacher has outscored nico on points and since canada easily had the measure of him pace wise in races.

rosberg has already talked about ferrari its obvious he doesnt want to stay at mercedes so theres always the chance Di Resta will be alongside schumacher for a year or 2 beeing mentored and prepared to lead the team.

 

[Skeeter]

You can be a fanboy all you like, I really don't care if you see nothing wrong with him ever, just stop crying about others who are more open minded

I apologise if I have upset you in any way.

I said this would happen didn't I.

At no point have I said Hamilton has been a golden innocent boy all season. He's made numerous mistakes. However, unlike most people on here, I dont see how those mistakes are any worse than those other drivers have been making. If anything, I'm the more open minded one for not jumping at Lewis every chance I get, instead choosing to look at the bigger picture and take into account what other collisions and incidents are going on.

For example, how come nobody has picked up on the sheer number of front wings Schumacher has been through this season? Why was the safety car coming out in Japan Hamilton's fault when it was also to clear debris from an incident between Webber and Schumacher that was arguably more of a face palm (you can hardly claim you couldn't see the guy infront of you). JB moving accross on Lewis in Canada without seeing him was not that different to Lewis on Massa at Suzuka, yet even though the roles were reversed, Hamilton was in the wrong both times? Hamiltons overtake on Schumacher at Monaco was described as "brilliant" while an almost identical overtake on Maldonado got him labeled "stupid", yet the only difference was Schumacher left room while Maldonado didn't.

Surely I'm not the only one who can see there are massive inconsistencies in what people are saying just so they can fire some more flack at Hamilton?

So how about someone picks up on the points I have made above and has a decent discussion about them, rather than just going "LOL Hamilton fanboy" and running away giggling.

 

[Setroc]

You can be a fanboy all you like, I really don't care if you see nothing wrong with him ever, just stop crying about others who are more open minded

I apologise if I have upset you in any way.

Okay, as far as I'm concerned you are now just trolling him.

You can accuse someone of bias, but don't pretend that you yourself are "open minded" as it's clear that you hold your own bias. For me, this was exemplified when before the race you weren't hoping that your personal favourite driver did well. Instead you hoped that Massa would "stick it to Hamilton".. and if he didn't then Alonso would.

Obviously everyone is biased to some degree or another. Hell, I said for years that Davidson deserved another drive even though he probably didnt. But don't pretend that you are above bias because it's very clear that you're not. And if you tone down the attempted mockery then I'm sure everyone will appreciate your posts a lot more.

 

[3dcandy]

As a JB fan, most of my delight comes from him beating Lewis in a team that's built around him. Don't like Hammy, but I'm objective, and I believe that his problems come about because Button is driving better than him, seems better liked in his own team than him, and is increasingly loking like being the first person to have a greater points haul in a season than him. My dismay comes about because people will always say that Ham had an awful season, Button was lucky or whatever. I'm also finding it hard to believe that a driver who should be great as Lewis has in past seasons appear to be coming apart at the seams this season.
If Lewis had kept his trap shut a few times over the last 8 months, then maybe, just maybe the stewards wouldn't have been so harsh to him. But I'm sure he's regretting that interview now...and once again, this is where his team mate appears so much calmer...
One race where he doesn't get into a debatable tussle with someone, and drives a fast race with a good result would help him so much, and people may be off his back for a while, but for a driver who arrived with a bang, and so much promise, he's currently fading into someone who appears to hit too many people, unable to make tough decision calls right, and then also moans afterwards about things...
Perhaps when the season is over, he needs to disappear somewhere and come back a lot stronger...

 

[Setroc]

I think everyone likes JB. He's a class act these days.

I remember though when he first came into the sport, he was the young british hotshot that everyone was expecting great things from. He was hyped up greatly, and I was eager to cheer him on. As time went on it seemed he was a lot more interested in his partying and celebrity than he was in his racing, so that hype eventually turned to disillusionment. When he was being beaten by Barrichello in equal machinery in the Honda days I was ready to forget about him completely. Then Brawn happened, but I was still sceptical even after his WDC, as I always am about people who win in undisputably the best car. But from then his profressional behaviour, continued great attitude, and most importantly some stunning driving has certainly turned me around so I'm glad to say I'm a fan again.

So despite some bad memories, it's really hard not to like him and he's certainly my favourite driver right now.

 

[Skeeter]

While this might make Mr Men's head explode, I am actually a much bigger Button fan than I am a Hamilton fan, and have been right from the start of his career. I've always supported the British drivers and teams, but Button was always the driver I would want to meet most. I was also taught to drive by the same guy who taught JB. Little known fact, he failed his first test for speeding

 

[3dcandy]

Yup, have met Button, DC, Schuey (****!), Ralf Schumacher (told him I just spoke to his brother and he said He's a **** isn't he!!!), Barrichello, Irve the Swerve (swore every 3 seconds for about ten minutes...), Hamilton (came across as a 12 year old in a 22 year old body) and a few more...
However, yes Button was always good but the money kinda killed him for a few seasons. The swearies are what Clarkson would call an audi driver..

 

[sunama]

For example, how come nobody has picked up on the sheer number of front wings Schumacher has been through this season?

You are comparing a midfield driver with Hamilton?

The reason why I am so tough on Hamilton is because he is (and believes) that he is aiming to win multiple World titles and is vying for the title of best driver in F1. MSc is not vying for any of these things.

In MSc's prime, he would not be losing so many front wings.

If you want to compare Hamilton with MSc, compare him with MSc when he was in his prime.

JB moving accross on Lewis in Canada without seeing him was not that different to Lewis on Massa at Suzuka, yet even though the roles were reversed, Hamilton was in the wrong both times?

I still contend that Button was at fault for the Canadian incident, as he basically drove Hamilton into the wall. Hamilton had no where to go and couldn't even back off, because his wheels were caught up in Button's car (on the right hand side) and he had the wall to the left of him.

The big problem I have with Hamilton in the 2nd half of the season is the sheer number of collisions. I've watched F1 for a long time and I have never seen a top line driver have so many collisions. Sure, there are some midfield and back of the field type drivers who have had many collisions, but for a top line driver (eg. Mansell, Prost, Senna, MSc, Hakkinen, Alonso...etc) to have so many collisions is unprecedented.

Before the Japanese race started I did think that there was a high chance of Hamilton having a collision and low and behold...he did just that. Vettel, Button and Alonso (who are the other top line drivers), had no collisions.

Hamilton was lucky not to a get a penalty - if he did he would've finished lower down the field and lost more points.

 

[Ceryndrion]

When he was being beaten by Barrichello in equal machinery in the Honda days I was ready to forget about him completely.

Let's see now..

2006 - Button finished 6th, 26 points ahead of Barrichello in 7th.
2007 - Button finished 15th, 6 points ahead of Barrichello in 20th.
2008 - Button finished 18th, 8 points behind Barrichello in 14th.

So, really he only lost to Barrichello during one of those years, and we all know how much of a dog the Honda was prior to the Brawn Phoenix

 

[FrankJH]

I still contend that Button was at fault for the Canadian incident, as he basically drove Hamilton into the wall. Hamilton had no where to go and couldn't even back off, because his wheels were caught up in Button's car (on the right hand side) and he had the wall to the left of him..

On a clear day you may be right - but in that amount of rain (which makes it completely different to suzuka imo) there is no way anyone would be seen in the useless mirrors (given the spray from both cars and the rain coming down as normal) it would be hard enough to see a bright red Ferrari let alone a silvery/grey McLaren

Let's see now..

2006 - Button finished 6th, 26 points ahead of Barrichello in 7th.
2007 - Button finished 15th, 6 points ahead of Barrichello in 20th.
2008 - Button finished 18th, 8 points behind Barrichello in 14th.

So, really he only lost to Barrichello during one of those years, and we all know how much of a dog the Honda was prior to the Brawn Phoenix

Not to mention that RB wasnt ever close to winning any race in the Honda, compared to the deserved 1st victory for JB in Hungary in 2006

 

[Duke]

Okay, as far as I'm concerned you are now just trolling him.

You can accuse someone of bias, but don't pretend that you yourself are "open minded" as it's clear that you hold your own bias. For me, this was exemplified when before the race you weren't hoping that your personal favourite driver did well. Instead you hoped that Massa would "stick it to Hamilton".. and if he didn't then Alonso would.

Obviously everyone is biased to some degree or another. Hell, I said for years that Davidson deserved another drive even though he probably didnt. But don't pretend that you are above bias because it's very clear that you're not. And if you tone down the attempted mockery then I'm sure everyone will appreciate your posts a lot more.

Well said.

 

[NathanE]

I think it's been clear for ages that Mr Men is just our resident F1 thread troll. Every forum has one

Something I have noticed on the other F1 forums is that even the Hamilton haters/trolls have started admitting that, even they, want the old Lewis back. It's their dirty little secret. It's quite funny and sad at the same time

 

[Skeeter]

<snip>

You know what, I agree, pretty much.

The issue is not the mistakes on their own. The issue is its Hamilton making the mistakes. Now wether your issue is the fact Hamilton is a top driver and is making these mistakes (as surnama's clealy is), or wether you just don't like Hamilton or want to join in with slating him, the crux is the same, its Hamilton.

The incidents in isolation are insignificant, and unremarkable, especially when compared with what else is going on elsewhere on the track.

This is the issue I have (obviously poorly) been trying to get accross all along, the incidents are not the problem, its the 'Hamilton factor'. The problem we have in these threads is that people are using their dislike for Hamilton or desire to 'join in with the gang' to inflate the incidents into something they aren't.

There is this mentality being created that Hamilton is making hundreds of horrendous stupid massive mistakes while everyone else on the grid has been squeeky clean. This is simply not the case. I have never disputed Hamilton has made mistakes, I have just disputed the inflated claims that they are the biggest mistakes in history and he deservers some sort of ban for it.

Hamilton is punishing himself enough for his mistakes, if he drops to 6th in the WDC, it will be his worst championship finishing position of his entire car racing career.