Japanese Grand Prix 2013, Suzuka - Race 15/19

For all we know they may be exploiting a legal loophole, which has been done before, also by other teams, many times. since it's legal, it's not cheating.

It is odd how they can field a car than go more than 2 secs a lap faster than the rest of the field on demand however during races.
 
Spunkey said:
I really wish the RBR tin foil hat brigade would stop now. I'm no fan of RB, but it's just getting silly now.
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Retarded isn't it.

The ECU is standard, the mapping is available to the FIA, the cars are scrutineered and pass, and given the public hoo haa about it the FIA will clearly have eyes looking for things specifically related to any TC systems.

But no, it couldn't possibly be legal, it must mean RBR are bribing the FIA and gagging the other teams while cheating :rolleyes:
 
Skeeter said:
Retarded isn't it.

The ECU is standard, the mapping is available to the FIA, the cars are scrutineered and pass, and given the public hoo haa about it the FIA will clearly have eyes looking for things specifically related to any TC systems.

But no, it couldn't possibly be legal, it must mean RBR are bribing the FIA and gagging the other teams while cheating :rolleyes:
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The cars have never been scrutinised ever in the history of F1 until a team makes a protest
yes they check the Wight fuel level but that's it. Also F1 rules are the worst in any racing sport as it's so open to teams cheating.

Only Nascar fully scrutinise every car before and after a race.
 
deuse said:
The cars have never been scrutinised ever in the history of F1 until a team makes a protest
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A team of specially appointed scrutineers has the power to check cars at any point during a Grand Prix weekend to ensure that they fully comply with technical and safety regulations.

Every car is initially examined on the Thursday of a race meeting (Wednesday at Monaco) and a car cannot take part in the event until it has passed scrutineering. A car must be re-examined by scrutineers if any significant changes are made to it by the team or if it is involved in an accident.

In addition to scrutineering, cars are also weighed during the Grand Prix weekend to ensure that they comply with minimum weight requirements (640kg). Cars taking part in Q1 and Q2 are called in at random to be weighed, while all cars participating in Q3 are weighed after the session. Classified finishers are weighed again after the race.

Any competitor failing to meet the minimum weight may lose their qualifying times or be excluded from the race results unless this is due to the accidental loss of part of the car.
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http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8688/

24) SCRUTINEERING
24.1 Between 10.00 and 16.00 three days before the race (four days in Monaco) initial scrutineering of all cars will take place in the garage assigned to each competitor.
24.2 Unless a waiver is granted by the stewards, competitors who do not keep to these time limits will not be allowed to take part in the Event.
24.3 No car may take part in the Event until it has been passed by the scrutineers.
24.4 The scrutineers may :
a) check the eligibility of a car or of a competitor at any time during an Event ;
b) require a car to be dismantled by the competitor to make sure that the conditions of eligibility or conformity are fully satisfied ;
c) require a competitor to pay the reasonable expenses which exercise of the powers mentioned in this Article may entail ;
d) require a competitor to supply them with such parts or samples as they may deem necessary.
24.5 Any car which, after being passed by the scrutineers, is dismantled or modified in a way which might affect its safety or call into question its eligibility, or which is involved in an accident with similar consequences, must be re-presented for scrutineering approval.
Any such re-scrutineering may only take place with the consent of the stewards (following a written request from a competitor) and will be carried out the next morning.
24.6 The race director or the clerk of the course may require that any car involved in an accident be stopped and checked.
24.7 Checks and scrutineering shall be carried out by duly appointed officials who shall also be responsible for the operation of the parc fermé and who alone are authorised to give instructions to the competitors.
24.8 The stewards will publish the findings of the scrutineers each time cars are checked during the Event. These results will not include any specific figure except when a car is found to be in breach of the Technical Regulations.

26) WEIGHING
26.1 a) During the qualifying practice session cars will be weighed as follows :
1) the FIA will install weighing equipment in the first pit garage (the FIA garage) which will be used for the weighing procedure ;
2) cars taking part in Q1 and Q2 will be selected at random to undergo the weighing procedure ;
3) when signalled to do so the driver will proceed directly to the FIA garage and stop his engine;
4) the car will then be weighed with driver and the result given to the driver or a team representative in writing ;
5) At the end of the qualifying session all cars which took part in Q3 will be weighed. If a driver wishes to leave his car before it is weighed he must ask the technical delegate to weigh him in order that this weight may be added to that of the car.
6) if the car is unable to reach the FIA garage under its own power it will be placed under the exclusive control of the marshals who will take the car to be weighed ;
7) a car or driver may not leave the FIA garage without the consent of the FIA technical delegate;
8) if a car stops on the circuit and the driver leaves the car, he must go to the FIA garage immediately on his return to the pit lane in order for his weight to be established.
b) After the race every classified car will be weighed. If a driver wishes to leave his car before it is weighed he must ask the technical delegate to weigh him in order that this weight may be added to that of the car.
c) The relevant car may be excluded should its weight be less than that specified in Article 4.1 of the Technical Regulations when weighed under a) or b) above, save where the deficiency in weight results from the accidental loss of a component of the car.
d) No substance may be added to, placed on, or removed from a car after it has been selected for weighing or has finished the race or during the weighing procedure. (Except by a scrutineer when acting in his official capacity).
e) No one other than scrutineers and officials may enter or remain in the FIA garage without the specific permission of the FIA technical delegate.
26.2 In the event of any breach of these provisions for the weighing of cars the stewards may drop the driver such number of grid positions as they consider appropriate or exclude him from the race.
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http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8688/fia.html

:rolleyes:
 
Guerrilla said:
gSGgECQ.jpg

Poor Mark :(

:D
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The one time Mark Webber was in the hunt to win a race this year, and Vettel, took it away from him...so cruelly. I cant help but laught at that.

I do wonder why it is always M.Webber who has the car trouble.
Vettel is virtually untouched by car trouble. Is it the way Webber drives? Does running in dirty air kill the RBR car (something which Vettel is not affected by as he is almost always at the front).

Perhaps Sparky-F1 can answer this question. I'm sure RBR have a theory after analysing Webber's car failures.
 
Skeeter said:
:rolleyes:
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All that doesn't matter one bit the only time a car is said to be iligal is when a team protests about it.

The FIA people missed the hole in the floor and never said a thing till teams said they will protest


"In essence, the FIA had originally accepted the concept from Red Bull as legal. But it was once implemented on the car and having heard representations from other teams about it, they’ve changed their minds and now say that the fact that there isn’t explicitly a rule banning the idea, doesn’t make it legal.
They now say it’s illegal, because it’s presence on the car must contravene other rules by association."

As I said in the real world the fia won't do **** till another teams complains or protests.


edit=and just for the hell of it shown me a F1 car that was deemed illegal by the FIA with out other team protesting.
 
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Spunkey said:
I really wish the RBR tin foil hat brigade would stop now. I'm no fan of RB, but it's just getting silly now.
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I love conspiracy theories, though not the RBR one as the FIA have declared the car legal - and that's good enough for me.

F1 is not in a good place right now.
I have a pretty good idea who is going to win on Sunday - and this before practise has even started. When a sport reaches this level of predictability, you know something is seriously wrong.

The worrying thing is that Vettel is still improving.
If Vettel is almost unbeatable in a RBR car in 2013, in 2014, it could be worse. Our only hope is that RBR's design and engineering department makes a fundamental error, which causes them to chase down a performance issue for the entire season.
 
deuse said:
As I said in the real world the fia won't do **** till another teams complains or protests.
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When a rule has a grey area, what you are saying is correct.

The FIA will then "clarify" the rule and will either make that car part legal or illegal. This no longer makes it a grey area.

However, for the most part, the FIA will stamp down on those who break rules which clearly contravene the rule book.For example, if a team brought a car with 5 wings on it, it would not be allowed to start the race. A rival team would not need to protest.

So, you are partially correct.
 
sunama said:
The one time Mark Webber was in the hunt to win a race this year, and Vettel, took it away from him...so cruelly. I cant help but laught at that.

I do wonder why it is always M.Webber who has the car trouble.
Vettel is virtually untouched by car trouble. Is it the way Webber drives? Does running in dirty air kill the RBR car (something which Vettel is not affected by as he is almost always at the front).

Perhaps Sparky-F1 can answer this question. I'm sure RBR have a theory after analysing Webber's car failures.
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Precisely, Vettel has more car issues when he runs behind people, and obviously contact happens with Vettel more. Fastest car on the track + frustration at being stuck down the grid = loads of contacts. Webber probably hits people more than Grosjean does, particularly this year.

Likewise Webber might be going around the track slower than Vettel further back, but to pass someone he has to push the car harder, in warmer/turbulent air over parts of the track. Vettel is pushing the car say 85% around the whole track. Webber is pushing the car at 98% to pass people, using his Kers more and running hotter for almost the entire race.
 
MooMoo444 said:
That feel when you're not sure if it's a dig at Kimi or a confidence booster for Massa.
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I didnt get that, it was a very much, pr boost for massa, lets get him a drive thing. Can justimagine Alonso trying not to snigger. You want me to do what!!!
But massa spins twice for every single drop of rain.
 
deuse said:
edit=and just for the hell of it shown me a F1 car that was deemed illegal by the FIA with out other team protesting.
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Di Resta in Britain 2013 (Qualifying) for being under weight
Both Saubers in Australia 2011 for failing rear wing tests
Both Hondas in 2005 for having second fuel tanks that allowed the car to run under weight

Just off the top of my head.

Then there's the FIA creating new rules to make things illegal off their own back. The big vertical nose wings that BMW ran in Canada in 2007ish, and the noise mounted tea tray and high up wings that Arrows and Jordan ran in Monaco in the early 00's.

There have also been numerous occasions of teams failing floor or wing deflection tests on Thursdays and being told to change parts.

The FIA do not simply let anything go and do nothing about it unless someone protests. A protest will be in relation to something deemed legal by the FIA that is then challenged by another team, and the rules may be subsequently clarified or amended. No car is allowed to roll out into a competitive F1 session without first being declared legal by the FIA.

If your going to insist on banging the same old drum, at least get your facts straight first. Your making yourself look stupid.

I wonder if Sparky is about, I'm sure he will have a decent insight into the scrutineering process that happens on Thursdays and then continues through the weekend.
 
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sunama said:
F1 is not in a good place right now.
I have a pretty good idea who is going to win on Sunday - and this before practise has even started. When a sport reaches this level of predictability, you know something is seriously wrong.
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I take it you didn't follow F1 during the MS period?
 
Right now its obvious Vettel is going to win the drivers championship. Being part of a fantasy F1 league im having to choose the best 2nd driver in my team so i can get the best points (obv). So because i already have Vettel im much more interested in the p2-p5 drivers and tbh its an insane season for them and it is incredible to watch the fights they have, if you're just going to moan about the season being boring and vettel winning all the time please just stop watching...

Take more of an interest in the top 10 drivers and no the top 3, you'll not only enjoy it more, you'll save us from having to hear all the moans about Vettel.... Get over it!
 
this_is_gav said:
Raikkonen is no faster than Massa, but he is towards his fastest consistently, whereas Massa very much isn't.
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He is towards his fastest more consistently than Massa, and is faster than Massa.

Kimi is 3rd in the all time fastest laps in F1, and is joint first (twice) for most fastest laps in a season.

So i think it's fair to say he's a faster than Massa.
 
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