Tough luck. It's already the case with the safety car + pit stop rushing.
Japanese Grand Prix 2014, Suzuka - Race 15/19
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
Tough luck. It's already the case with the safety car + pit stop rushing.
So if someone locks up and slams into the barriers at la source hairpin, the drivers take a different route through the corner?
you'll have to explain the route they take to me
You can't recall 2 cars going off at the same point before? Or a car going off under yellow flags?
Have you never watched any motor racing at all before Sunday? Actually no, even that doesn't work, as one of the Caterham spun under yellow flags while following the Safety Car!
(I realise this is probably a bad move, and if it decends into a Now vs Then rant or petty argument about noise or 'being able to react' then I whole heartedly appologise to the Forum members as a whole..... but.....)
Err Wut?
Going off and hitting a 5+ ton JCB that's already attending another off
Yes.
unsafe releases into other cars, wheels coming lose from not doing the nuts up, mechanics being hit when the car doesn't hit its marks.
Keep trying
Going off and hitting a 5+ ton JCB that's already attending another off
You've clearly not grasped the context of what we are discussing here.
Yes I have.
People are talking about slowing cars down for yellow flags, making sure they time races for sunny days etc.
This is a "freak" event that as i already mentioned I dont recall ever happening before.
Soldato
- Joined
- 15 Feb 2011
- Posts
- 10,234
- Location
- Slough
unsafe releases into other cars, wheels coming lose from not doing the nuts up, mechanics being hit when the car doesn't hit its marks.
Keep trying
Which would all be a hell of a lot worse with much higher speeds in the pit lane
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
It's incredibly easy to mandate that everyone passes through the slow zone the same amount of times, incredibly easy. Again this can all be automatically done.
Say someone 5th goes off, by the time the signal is sent that the car needs recovering or is in a dangerous position and it needs to be slow the message is sent and the computer is told accident at lets say corner 6, a message is sent to cars at that point that out of corner 5 till out of corner 7 is a speed limited zone. At this point it's say 10th that gets caught, gets told there is two straights and one corner with a speed limit. Slows for the corner, further if it's a fast corner, comes out and takes the straight at a speed limit, takes the dangerous corner slowly, slow down the next straight and speed up out of the next corner.
Then everyone all the way around to 9th also has to have a slow two straights in the same segments. For each time the 10th place guy(first through the speed limit) goes through even if the track is cleared the computer still tells everyone up to 9th to do one more slow segment, then it's all back up to normal speed.
Going slow is not dangerous and people who say that are daft.
Hamilton wanted them to go faster because it was both wet and the start of the race so they had little heat in the tires or brakes in conditions where braking is less good anyway in the wet. When you're talking about cars up to race speed/temps, then 2 slow straights will not have any significant bearing on brake or tire temps at all.
That way everyone slows the same amount, it's fair and it's significantly safer than the current yellow flag system where no one slows. Without a hard limit everyone will claim they dropped off. Merc can slow down by a second through that sector and still be faster than a Caterham which may go absolutely flat out and still be slower. If there was a hard and fast rule of 60MPH, everyone would stick to it.
It would be far far less intrusive than safety cars. The only time a full on safety car is needed is when marshalls need to access the actual track and the gap between cars when they are all bunched closely is needed. I would also still say like yesterday that a JCB shouldn't have gone out on a known troublesome corner in the wet. In situations like yesterday the speed limit should be implemented and likely reduce the risk by 70-80%, someone might aquaplane off but if they hit something it will be at a significantly reduced speed and at lower speed gravel traps will catch more people. If the problem persisted they could choose to go safety car, red flag, anything. When it's a corner known for aquaplaning with even low speeds being dangerous a JCB should not go out till a safety car is in force, they'd have had 2 minutes to get to, connect and reverse what 30 yards, easily doable, before the pack came back around again.
Yes, but my point is more risk happens in the pits with limiters than out on the track.
Its not like that JCB is always where it is out on the side of the track which makes this crash a "freak one off"
The outcome of the event is rare, but the event itself happens all the time.
Bianchi could have hit nothing, or he could have hit a marshal, or he could have hit a marshal and the truck and Sutil and parts of his car could have hit spectators. Should we only look at solving this one specific outcome (or as you suggest, not bother), or should we look at solving the root cause of why/how a car left the circuit under yellow flags and was placed into a position where he could hit a recovery truck?
If you step on a drawing pin, do you just put a plaster on the wound, or do you pick up the pin?
Bianchi could have hit nothing, or he could have hit a marshal, or he could have hit a marshal and the truck and Sutil and parts of his car could have hit spectators. Should we only look at solving this one specific outcome (or as you suggest, not bother), or should we look at solving the root cause of why/how a car left the circuit under yellow flags and was placed into a position where he could hit a recovery truck?
If you step on a drawing pin, do you just put a plaster on the wound, or do you pick up the pin?
Ok so your point wasn't that limiter make the pits unsafe, but rather that even with the speed limit in place, the pitlane is still a dangerous place?
If so I see your point. But you can't compare a speed limited pitlane with a speed limited track. For a start the volume of people and machinery about is vastly different.
Don
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 17,038
- Location
- In a house
I totally agree, this is a freak incident, but it does not mean we cannot learn from it.
I think that a simply slowing cars down significantly around the accident scene is the most sensible way. If people lose out, or gain from it, so be it! Its sport. Sometimes the luck is with you, sometimes it is not!
Last edited:
Where did I say "not bother" please show me.
Instead of people saying "dry races" only "slow down using limiters etc" they should perhaps not have a 5+ton JCB out on track but rather some long reach arm/crane.
Also yellow flags you say? well this video shows green being waved directly at the scene - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uYpbi66ppg
If they didn't send the JCB out, they would still have sent marshals out.
And the Green flag is at the first marshals post after the incident, which is to indicate the end of the yellow flag zone. Thats how yellow flag zones work.
What are you getting at...?
Nothing.
You are the one who said waved yellow flags when its clear that green is being shown.
I never mentioned or brought up anything about the flags until you did.
(but lets assume Bianchi saw this green flag and speed up causing his crash to be more severe so maybe the marshal is at fault?)
I'm unsure whether your trolling, whether you have a really poor understanding of how the flags work, or if you have really bad 3D spacial awareness which means you haven't grasped how sight lines work around corners, but either way I think we are well past the point that we can have a sensible discussion about this, so I will leave you too it.
As I said I would do: Sorry to the rest of the forum.