Jedi ejected from Tesco for wearing hood

Richdog · 19 Sep 2009 at 10:30

Nitefly said:
I think it'd pretty easy to make a distinction between a religion stemming back with thousands of years of history and culture, and a 'religion' based on a modern popular fictional film franchise, regardless of your view of religion as a whole.

How dare you apply common sense to this discussion.

Von Smallhausen · 19 Sep 2009 at 10:32

Although Tesco will never admit it, they don't like someone coming in whose face they can't see and who can potentially, to them, shoplift.

DAnDan · 19 Sep 2009 at 10:33

Nitefly said:
I think you have given my response yourself

If he was a member of a genuine, yet relatively unknown religion then I would be more inclined to side with that individual.

He was. Just because it's based on something different, makes it no less plausible as a religion than any other religion around. Until one religion is proven undeniably true, then anyone can create any religion they want, and deserve to be treated exactly the same as any other religion.

(Please note, I find the entire concept of religion laughable, but it at least has to be fair.)

Rameses · 19 Sep 2009 at 10:34

Azagoth said:
*wavey hand* This isn't the hood you're looking for! *wavey hand*

Tesco Staff: "Move on. This isn't the hood we're looking for"

Dark_Angel · 19 Sep 2009 at 10:36

He should have said:

"I am a Jedi Knight and the Sauce is strong with me..."

RDM · 19 Sep 2009 at 10:40

Richdog said:
The point, my as ever needlessly pedantic forum chum, is that a young man with a hoodie is much more likely to shoplift that a woman wearing a burkha.

I thought it was very necessary pedantism (I am not even sure if that is a word...) as you were calling someone stupid and questioning their IQ while you yourself were giving incorrect information.

Nitefly · 19 Sep 2009 at 10:42

DAnDan said:
He was. Just because it's based on something different, makes it no less plausible as a religion than any other religion around. Until one religion is proven undeniably true, then anyone can create any religion they want, and deserve to be treated exactly the same as any other religion.

(Please note, I find the entire concept of religion laughable, but it at least has to be fair.)

Actually, I don't think you are being fair.

If you are the type to think that those who 'sincerely' follow the path of the flying spaghetti monster should be treated with the same respect as Christians, then you are ignoring what the purpose of the former was attempting to achieve. Likewise, the Jedi are characters from a series of modern children's films - you cannot simply ignore this context when coming to your conclusions.

I'm not trying to say that one is superior or more valuable for the other, but I'm not going to go and give a 'Jedi', Voldermorteans or the Pastismasharians the same respect as Islam, or anything similar.

Nitefly · 19 Sep 2009 at 10:49

Moses99p said:
But there are Christians who say they don't believe the Bible literally, but just see it as a series of allegories, right? What if a "Jedi" merely sees Star Wars as a series of allegories, and decides to live his life by a series of principles in that story?

(I realise I'm skating on thin ice ;s)

Smart arse

I see where your argument is coming from, but ultimately such people would fall under the same umbrella as those aforementioned. I could not make a distinction myself.

Richdog · 19 Sep 2009 at 10:51

DAnDan said:
He was. Just because it's based on something different, makes it no less plausible as a religion than any other religion around. Until one religion is proven undeniably true, then anyone can create any religion they want, and deserve to be treated exactly the same as any other religion.

(Please note, I find the entire concept of religion laughable, but it at least has to be fair.)

Jedi is based on a sci-fi movie we KNOW beyond any doubt is a complete and utter fabrication. Established religion is based on millenia of the common belief of millions of people and a book that has never been proven (however much we wish otherwise) wrong. If I invent a religion tommorrow based on The Matrix and declare hoods essential, there is no reason in hell why they should respect that.

semi-pro waster · 19 Sep 2009 at 11:03

Moses99p said:
But there are Christians who say they don't believe the Bible literally, but just see it as a series of allegories, right? What if a "Jedi" merely sees Star Wars as a series of allegories, and decides to live his life by a series of principles in that story?

(I realise I'm skating on thin ice ;s)

The individual is free to live his life by those principles but again the shop (or people in general) are free to refuse service and/or discriminate against them to an extent based on their actions unless they are part of a specific group that is covered by anti-discrimination laws.

Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence as the well worn mantra goes, here we'd just be extending it to freedom of action is not freedom from consequence.

indup · 19 Sep 2009 at 11:08

oh its muslims again is it. seemed like there had been a few threads with no muslims mentioned, time to bring them up again.

rayer · 19 Sep 2009 at 11:11

Richdog said:
And the chances of a muslim woman wearing a veil shoplifting vs a young kid wearing a hoodie are...?

Or the chances of a muslim woman exploding v a young kid in a hoody

gillywibble · 19 Sep 2009 at 11:11

Never has the rolleyes face been more appropriate.

LordSplodge · 19 Sep 2009 at 11:12

I'm tempted to go to my nearest Tesco in full ceremonial Druid* garb and see what happens. Complete with my hood up.

On second thoughts I'd just look like a prat so I won't bother....

* No not from WoW smart arse.

Gaygle · 19 Sep 2009 at 11:15

-"You don't need to see my face....."

Gaygle · 19 Sep 2009 at 11:16

indup said:
oh its muslims again is it. seemed like there had been a few threads with no muslims mentioned, time to bring them up again.

You want to have been on here a couple of years ago. It was absolutely hilarious. A thread used to start about potatoes or something, and by page 2 it will have turned into a muslim thread.

It really was amazing.

RDM · 19 Sep 2009 at 11:34

semi-pro waster said:
The individual is free to live his life by those principles but again the shop (or people in general) are free to refuse service and/or discriminate against them to an extent based on their actions unless they are part of a specific group that is covered by anti-discrimination laws.

Which brings up an interesting point. How is religion defined under the anti-discrimination laws? Does it have a list of existing religions or does it use a different definition?

steve-h · 19 Sep 2009 at 11:37

Sumanji said:
Religion is dumb tripe

Hades · 19 Sep 2009 at 11:48

These are not the groceries you are looking for

semi-pro waster · 19 Sep 2009 at 11:59

RDM said:
Which brings up an interesting point. How is religion defined under the anti-discrimination laws? Does it have a list of existing religions or does it use a different definition?

There is no exhaustive list as far as I am aware, for an exemplar of the type of definition used you could look to the Equality Act 2006 (section 44) which is to the effect that it can refer to any religion but (and it's quite a big but) it will come down to the interpretation of the courts what qualifies so I'd still suspect they will side with a definition of 'officially recognised religions' or similar which would exclude Jedi. However that is merely guesswork by me and it would have to be tested in court before it could be relied upon - perhaps Mr Jones could be induced to do that very thing and then some good can come of this little incident.