Soldato
I like the fact he was "ejected" from Tesco, as though he was plonked in a cannon and fired. 
Jedi ejected from Tesco for wearing hood
- Thread starter Rainmaker
- Start date
Soldato
All equally valid points.
Whilst this jedi guy seems like a complete tool he is part of a religion and so his religious rights should be respected.
Why should someone who beleives in something equally ******** and groundless in fact as Islam is be allowed to get away with wearing what they want simply because their religion has been around longer?
This is discrimination.
Or hang on a second is religion all rubbish unless it has a certain longevity about it? Was Christianity and Islam viewed as a the complete twoddle that it rightly should be until it was "X" amount of years old and then suddenly *BAM* oh well its been twoddle for so long now we better respect it and let the loonies get away with whatever they want.
Again let me say this Jedi bloke sounds like a plonker but he has a valid point, why should his own religion be discriminated against because it is not "mainstream" if he had walked in and was a member of an ethnic minority but was wearing an inflatible rubber sheep on his head saying it was part of his religion called "itscompletelymadeupliketherestofthestuff" then he would certainly be allowed to get away with it.
And I did lol at this
I think you have given my response yourself
If he was a member of a genuine, yet relatively unknown religion then I would be more inclined to side with that individual.
But he should surely be presumed to be genuine - without knowing his background it is plausible that a random person genuinely believes he is a jedi and that belief should be respected or mocked as much as any other religious belief. OK we know that the guy in the article was the bloke behind this jedi census stuff and is prob just making a point but the principle is the same - if you're going to pander to superstitious beliefs you can't start dictating which superstitious beliefs are more valid than others.
The Druid comment from Lord Splodge was a valid one, and I confess Druids sprung immediately to mind as I posted this last night. Certainly, no court or company can deny that Druidism is a 'proper' religion, and an ancient one at that! For sheer lols, it would be quite amusing should the plonker in the article go back into the store, with his hood, and say "It's OK, I've converted to Druidism!".
The crux of this issue does seem to be 'What constitutes a valid religion?'. After all, as was pointed out many Christians see the bible as allegorical and many religions were rather old before Christianity or Islam was even 'born'; so at what point did they stop being superstitious stories/twaddle and become more respectable than the next wack-job's idea?
The idea a store can refuse entry for any reason is interesting. I'm not sure you could get away with a 'whites only' or 'no Jews' store. So why allow Muslims in burkas but not 'Jedis' or Druids?
The crux of this issue does seem to be 'What constitutes a valid religion?'. After all, as was pointed out many Christians see the bible as allegorical and many religions were rather old before Christianity or Islam was even 'born'; so at what point did they stop being superstitious stories/twaddle and become more respectable than the next wack-job's idea?
The idea a store can refuse entry for any reason is interesting. I'm not sure you could get away with a 'whites only' or 'no Jews' store.
So why allow Muslims in burkas but not 'Jedis' or Druids?Well said!
In my opinion, either everything that claims to be a religion is allowed equal footing, or none are given any kind of special treatment. I would prefer to see the latter though.
Soldato
pfft, Jedis would not put up such a fuss over such a trivial thing, They would have simply taken down their hood. Fakers.
Caporegime
We know that Jedi's originate in a work of fiction. This is demonstrably true and should even be provable to this alleged believer. Established religions can not be shown to be based on works of fiction so the two are not comparable. This is the same reason that I am very suspicious of scientology.
That being said, I don't believe religion should be protected, except from actual discrimination ie for employment etc.
That being said, I don't believe religion should be protected, except from actual discrimination ie for employment etc.
Associate
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"Established" religions cannot be shown to be false, but they also can't be proven to be true either.
I think discrimination on the basis of how old your imaginary friend is is rather stupid personally.
Soldato
My imaginary friend would disagree with you!
Caporegime
Man of Honour
Why are you linking ethnic minorities into the equation and on what do you base your assertion that they would "be allowed to get away with it"?
Arguing that all religions regardless of age should be treated with equal respect or disrespect might be valid but I don't think that has anything much to do with your idea of special treatment of ethnic minorities.
The idea a store can refuse entry for any reason is interesting. I'm not sure you could get away with a 'whites only' or 'no Jews' store.
It's not just an idea, you can refuse service on any grounds (apart from those specifically excluded e.g. race, religion, sexuality etc). A 'whites only' or 'no Jews' store would therefore fall foul of such - if however you created a store that was to the effect of 'no tall people' then that should not prove to be a legal problem, however it would leave you as a storeowner open to being judged for such a bizarre prejudice. The situtation stems from contract law and when an offer and acceptance is created e.g. invitation to treat and the Boots Cash Chemist case.
Caporegime
Also, since when is a religion 'established'? Is there an official rule or something for a religeon/BELIEF to be 'real/true' now?
Man of Honour
Also, since when is a religion 'established'? Is there an official rule or something for a religeon/BELIEF to be 'real/true' now?
As I mentioned above in reply to RDM I don't think there is an official list as such which means that for protection under anti-discrimination laws it would rely on the courts interpretation. I imagine that they would probably look to the most recent census as giving a list of established religions, although Jedi garnered a number of votes in the last census I don't believe it was accepted as a religion after that so it probably still misses out.
Being recognised as an established religion doesn't mean that it is true in any sense, it only means that you would be protected against discrimination resulting from following the religion.
Caporegime
Exactly what I was getting at, which again brings us full circle as to whether Jedi can be considered a religion. While in the 'real world' I'm not suggesting Jedi is a religion as we'd commonly accept the term to mean, it is an interested challenge. Dictionary.com gives us this:
Jedi seems to basically fulfil these criteria, especially (2), though I'm sure a more legal framework defining 'religion' has been established in case law or statute by now.re⋅li⋅gion
/rɪˈlɪdʒ
ən/
Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-lij-uh
n]
See web results for religion
See images of religion
–noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. 2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion. 3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions. 4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion. 5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith. 6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
But at any rate, had the guy said he was a Druid or somesuch, Tesco would have basically been discriminating on grounds of religion. I only posted the OP because it's so lol-worthy, yet the case does hold merit for discussion. Not quite SC material, though.
I wouldn't use the word pander, but respect. As aforementioned, it's very easy to see why a Christian should be more respected than a 'Jedi' - see my previous posts, along with vonhelmet's and Richdog's. There is nothing really left that I can add to this discussion.
Associate
Rubbish both ways. There can be no happy compromise. All parties are idiots.
Nonsense. Utter self-centred nonsense.
Christians are no different than someone who believes in fairies. What if Jedis were to say that George Lucas wrote about the Force, but did not create it? Just because he made a film about it, doesn't mean he has to believe in it or state it's true.
Similar to Jedis is Hubbard's Scientology. The difference is that Hubbard maintained it was true, Lucas does not. All you need to bridge the gap is someone to allege that Lucas was writing about Jedis after reading the "Jedi Book" which was written in the 50s.
I'm a very comfortable atheist. I have no doubts about my opinions. But I also recognise that my beliefs are entirely without indisputable proof. (See Bertrand Russell's teapot, or the flying spaghetti monster). As a result I think the only fair way to do things is to fight for everybodies right to practice whatever religion they choose to. So long that it does not affect other people, is not forced on other people, does not break the law, and is "reasonable behaviour" in specific circumstances.
As a result I completely refute that Britain is a "Christian country". We're one of the most liberal and progressive countries in the world, and historically have always been so. We were pagan, then one flavour of Christianity and then another, and now we are by majority non-religious.
If there is one thing we should have learned by now it's that we should not be judging peoples religions to see if they have merit, nor treating people differently because of which religion they belong, or do not belong to.
The only religious issues I take with society these days are any attempts to apply Christianity to the state, any pandering to minority religions or treating them with kid gloves (teachers in full balaclava style head scaves), and "faith schools" Richard Dawkin makes a good point about babies not being born Christian, they simply have it battered into their brains from an early age until it sticks.
Christians should not be respected any more than any other religion which someone claims to believe in.