Jimmy Savile - Sexual Predator

hurfdurf said:
When someone is murdered, we do not automatically blame the person who is murdered, we do not tell her or him it was their fault, we do as a society ask what they were wearing or tell them that they deserved it. When you joke about murder you are not accidentally or secretly telling other murderers that their behaviour is normal and that everyone is doing it. When you are ask a group of peoploe about whether or not they have murdered someone without using the technical word murder, a horribly large section of the people asked will not respond yes. We do not live in a culture where murder is normalised, we do live in a rape culture where rape is normalised.
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Actually the first comments out of the mouths of most are along the lines of "Why were they out playing on their own?" and "Why were they walking down that dark alleyway alone?", not to mention all the comments after young men get killed in a shooting/stabbing... The same with many violent assault cases.

It's almost exactly the same, you cannot have one rule for one and one rule for the other just because you have a chip on your shoulder about one and not the other.

hurfdurf said:
I will stand and bang all day for both male and female victims of rape and sexual assault, I do not see the difference, niether should you.
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Then we agree on that point. Not sure why you were trying to make me seem like I wasn't...


hurfdurf said:
You can conscent to stand and bang with someone. Ever heard of boxing? God damn rape apologists really don't think things through, and that is part of the problem. :rolleyes:
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Yet almost all the cases I've seen you use that phrase have not been involving boxing... Try again.. ;)
 
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Amp34 said:
Actually the first comments out of the mouths of most are along the lines of "Why were they out playing on their own?" and "Why were they walking down that dark alleyway alone?", not to mention all the comments after young men get killed in a shooting/stabbing... The same with many violent assault cases.

It's almost exactly the same, you cannot have one rule for one and one rule for the other just because you have a chip on your shoulder about one and not the other.
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It is completely different. People may ask why a man or woman was in a gang or was on their own, but they wont by and large blame the person for being killed and they wont say they deserved it (unless they are complete filth). It is on a complete other level for rape victims and victims of sexual assault.

Amp34 said:
Yet almost all the cases I've seen you use that phrase have not been involving boxing... Try again.. ;)
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Stand and bang.... to offer someone to stand and trade punches in an MMA fight, its a daft phrase I use ironically, and it is specifically aimed at a sporting bout. I would never condone physical violence being imposed on someone against their will unless in very specific self defence circumstances.

You try justifying apologising for rapsists again.
 
Amp34 said:
You're commenting on the wrong forum...
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Threads like this sometimes really do make me think that tbh.

Amp34 said:
All of the above are regular jokes, along with murder/killing jokes...
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Very few people regularly joke about being a child molester.

Amp34 said:
Just because you joke about it doesn't mean you would apologise for someone that actually did it...
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That isn't really what being an apologist means, but that is neither really here nor there. I have been chatting to my wife about this and she pretty much finds any joke about rape to be unacceptable. A casual "Lol, I'm a rapist" joke she finds quite offensive.
 
RDM said:
Threads like this sometimes really do make me think that tbh.



Very few people regularly joke about being a child molester.



That isn't really what being an apologist means, but that is neither really here nor there. I have been chatting to my wife about this and she pretty much finds any joke about rape to be unacceptable. A casual "Lol, I'm a rapist" joke she finds quite offensive.
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Indeed.

This post in particular is addressed to men, not because women don’t rape and women don’t make/laugh at rape jokes and not because men can’t be raped, but because, by nature of the existing gender disparity, men are in a unique position to be taken seriously when they raise objections to casual language and humor regarding rape. Men are also in a unique position to prove to rapists and douchebags that not all men rape or take rape lightly by being able to embody living proof of that fact.

I get it—you’re a decent guy. I can even believe it. You’ve never raped anybody. You would NEVER rape anybody. You’re upset that all these feminists are trying to accuse you of doing something, or connect you to doing something, that, as far as you’re concerned, you’ve never done and would never condone.

And they’ve told you about triggers, and PTSD, and how one in six women is a survivor, and you get it. You do. But you can’t let every time someone gets all upset get in the way of you having a good time, right? Especially when it doesn’t mean anything. Rape jokes have never made YOU go out and rape someone. They never would; they never could. You just don’t see how it matters.

I’m going to tell you how it does matter. And I tell you this because I genuinely believe you mean it when you say you don’t want to hurt anybody, and that it’s important to you to do your best to be a decent and good person, and that you don’t see the harm. And I genuinely believe you when you say you would never associate with a rapist and you think rape really is a very bad thing.

Here is why I refuse to take rape jokes sitting down…

Because 6% of college-aged men, slightly over 1 in 20, will admit to raping someone in anonymous surveys, as long as the word “rape” isn’t used in the description of the act—and that’s the conservative estimate. Other sources double that number (pdf).

A lot of people accuse feminists of thinking that all men are rapists. That’s not true. But do you know who think all men are rapists?

Rapists do.

They really do. In psychological study, the profiling, the studies, it comes out again and again.

Virtually all rapists genuinely believe that all men rape, and other men just keep it hushed up better. And more, these people who really are rapists are constantly reaffirmed in their belief about the rest of mankind being rapists like them by things like rape jokes, that dismiss and normalize the idea of rape.

If one in twenty guys (or more) is a real and true rapist, and you have any amount of social activity with other guys like yourself, then it is almost a statistical certainty that one time hanging out with friends and their friends, playing Halo with a bunch of guys online, in a WoW guild, in a pick-up game of basketball, at a bar, or elsewhere, you were talking to a rapist. Not your fault. You can’t tell a rapist apart any better than anyone else can. It’s not like they announce themselves.

But, here’s the thing. It’s very likely that in some of these interactions with these guys, at some point or another, someone told a rape joke. You, decent guy that you are, understood that they didn’t mean it, and it was just a joke. And so you laughed.

Or maybe you didn’t laugh. Maybe it just wasn’t a very funny joke. So maybe you just didn’t say anything at all.

And, decent guy who would never condone rape, who would step in and stop rape if he saw it, who understands that rape is awful and wrong and bad, when you laughed? When you were silent?

That rapist who was in the group with you, that rapist thought that you were on his side. That rapistknew that you were a rapist like him. And he felt validated, and he felt he was among his comrades.

You. The rapist’s comrade.

And if that doesn’t make you feel sick to your stomach, if that doesn’t make you want to throw up, if that doesn’t disturb you or bother you or make you feel like maybe you should at least consider not participating in that kind of humor anymore, not abiding it in your presence, not greeting it with silence…

Well, maybe you aren’t as opposed to rapists as you claim.
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hurfdurf said:
This post in particular is addressed to men, not because women don’t rape and women don’t make/laugh at rape jokes and not because men can’t be raped, but because, by nature of the existing gender disparity, men are in a unique position to be taken seriously when they raise objections to casual language and humor regarding rape. Men are also in a unique position to prove to rapists and douchebags that not all men rape or take rape lightly by being able to embody living proof of that fact.
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That was rather eloquent considering your other posts ... wonder what would happen if I googled that ;)

Although in the main as said before I do agree with the viewpoint you are attempting to establish.
 
hurfdurf said:
Indeed.

This post in particular is addressed to men, not because women don’t rape and women don’t make/laugh at rape jokes and not because men can’t be raped, but because, by nature of the existing gender disparity, men are in a unique position to be taken seriously when they raise objections to casual language and humor regarding rape. Men are also in a unique position to prove to rapists and douchebags that not all men rape or take rape lightly by being able to embody living proof of that fact.
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Very well said,

I had not honestly not considered many of the other aspects regarding rape jokes - I'll have to do some reading on the subject.

I agree with the general point, we do have a culture in which we apply blame in the case of rape (But not other crimes).

Good post.
 
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