JOKER 2: Folie à Deux

I'm not really surprised this has turned out to be bad, but I am surprised at how bad it seems to be. I thought the first was a great film, but a poor Joker film - the character just seemed deeply at odds with the Batman villain - and it seemed inevitable that trying to turn that character into the character in the rest of the universe was going to be difficult. But it seems they didn't even really try to do that. Phillips seems to be the one dancing to tunes in his head.
 
Been an exceptional year for stinkers, Madame Web, Borderlands and Megaloplis (sounds the worst to honest!), so I think Joker 2 might not be in those categories. For the most part the acting, directing, cinematography are meant to be good from what I've heard - but just an awful story and way to treat the character and undo the first film.
 
IvanDobskey said:
Sounds like they made this film to deliberately annoy the people who liked the first film. Really strange attitude to have. Glad it's failing horribly.
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From all the various rumours on SM (and therefore 100% accurate :D) one possibility is that the director specifically didn't want another Joker film to be made, so when the studio pressured him, rather than passing on it and it being made by someone else, he's deliberately "poisoned the well" with this film, ensuring the franchise dies here and now.

No idea how true that is, buts its an interesting think to consider, almost cutting your nose off to spite your face etc as this film has hurt any further career he had I'd say.
 
ianh said:
From all the various rumours on SM (and therefore 100% accurate :D) one possibility is that the director specifically didn't want another Joker film to be made, so when the studio pressured him, rather than passing on it and it being made by someone else, he's deliberately "poisoned the well" with this film, ensuring the franchise dies here and now.
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He was saying in August 2019 he'd be up for a sequel. I think it's more a misplaced attempt at making a very particular artistic point than a deliberate thumb in the eye.
 
I’ve been avoiding this thread and all reviews like the plague. I loved the first film, just came out of the cinema for this at the BFI IMAX…

(P.s. I normally like sitting ‘close’ in a standard cinema with the recliner seats but because of how steep the rake is at the BFI IMAX and with no recliner head support, I think we were sat a little too close in row H… rows K and L are optimum IMO!).

Unfiltered thoughts without influence…

Mixed feeling on it. I really liked the continuation of some themes of struggle, particularly the ‘overall conclusion’ (which I foresee some people hated) but felt that Arthur was a little too reckless, unlikable and ‘villainous’ at times which seemed to conflict with aforementioned themes.

My willingness to engage with the ‘musical side’ of things ebbed and flowed with the above. Some times it felt majestic and fabulous, at other times it felt forced and pretentious. Perhaps leaner editing, and less is more, might have helped the whole?

I loved how his relationship with Harley fizzled after he gave up his ‘Joker’ fantasy - then he just died. This to me was, obviously, a deliberate nod - some people might call it a ‘troll’ - towards the part of audience that wanted an ‘explosive, bombastic fantasy’ film.

Harley didn’t actually love Arthur, she loved the idea of the Joker… or at least her idea of it. Even when she could have had him, he was trash to her once the fantasy had been dented. She was, in fact, just as callous, shallow and a let down as the rest of Arthur’s world.

Then in the final moments… yup, life’s a bitch, then you die. What a great way to end it.

However, I really didn’t like the sections where Arthur fired his lawyer and became ‘Joker’ in the court room - this whole sequence irritated me. I know that he came back from this, but he was just being a total arse to Puddles and didn’t even seem ‘bemused / defeated / angry’ as per his character at the end of the first film. I don’t think the length and sensitive nature of the ‘mental illness’ aspects could really sustain this ‘buffoonery’ and the musical parts then started to fall flat.

I did like the jail scenes.

I thought Harley’s interaction with the media etc. and becoming a minor celeb was a little strange and perhaps could have been done better. Or her character should have got less screen time.

Overall, not sure it’s one I will watch again in a hurry. I’m sure a lot of people will not like it, but I’d at least encourage them to reflect on how the ending was somewhat intended to reflect those sentiments.

A caveated 7/10 - a film with peaks and troughs… your mileage may vary.

Edit: I don’t really like giving it a score that low, because I’d generally much rather watch something like this that’s weird and different with pros, albeit flawed, than something that’s OK but comparatively bland and forgettable.
 
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