Jordan Peterson thread

Colonel_Klinck said:
You don't consider alcoholics drug addicts? And how is their situation not self inflicted? Maybe its time some of you gave up that sterotype.

So @Roar87 is trying to paint those of us that say he's a drug addict as the ones with the problem here, I wonder if he'd call some drug addict he saw living on the street what he is, a drug addict regardless of how he got there. I also wonder if this was a prominent person on the left of similar standing whether you'd be jumping in to defend him. You see I'm not judging the guy, millions of people have addiction problems, who the hell am I to judge them when I haven't walked in their shoes. I've not read his books, self help books don't really appeal to me, although I've watched a few of his debates. I like some of what he says and some of it I don't. However trying to say he's not an addict when he's addicted to a drug that gives the user a sense of euphoria is ridiculous. If it was a drug that didn't but was horrific to stop taking due to withdrawal you might have a point but its not.
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It's not what I considered them as, it is what I would refer to them as what is being discussed here.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
They are nothing like the same at all. Does your wife get a feeling of well being, even a euphoria from her restless leg medication? Does a diabetic from insulin? No they don't and that is not why they continue to take them.
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Ahh, so it's euphoria or well being that makes the difference between dependence and addiction or have I misunderstood you?

Extrapolating from there, if well being is a side effect of a benzodiazepine that's been prescribed for severe depression, does this make the person an addict in your opinion? Does someone on an SSRI antidepressant who feels well being and a newfound euphoria at enjoying life have to admit they're addicts?

In my opinion addiction is a societal problem in the main, not an individual one. If people had more satisfying lives with real connections to those around them we wouldn't have nearly so many addicts looking for release from their circumstances. I'm certainly not defending people who rob and steal and damage lives to fuel addictions, but demonising them helps no one (and I'm not suggesting you are :) )
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
You don't consider alcoholics drug addicts? And how is their situation not self inflicted? Maybe its time some of you gave up that sterotype.

So @Roar87 is trying to paint those of us that say he's a drug addict as the ones with the problem here, I wonder if he'd call some drug addict he saw living on the street what he is, a drug addict regardless of how he got there. I also wonder if this was a prominent person on the left of similar standing whether you'd be jumping in to defend him. You see I'm not judging the guy, millions of people have addiction problems, who the hell am I to judge them when I haven't walked in their shoes. I've not read his books, self help books don't really appeal to me, although I've watched a few of his debates. I like some of what he says and some of it I don't. However trying to say he's not an addict when he's addicted to a drug that gives the user a sense of euphoria is ridiculous. If it was a drug that didn't but was horrific to stop taking due to withdrawal you might have a point but its not.
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They've prescribed a drug that can give a sense of euphoria to someone with severe depression because their wife has cancer, and you're holding that against him. They can prescribe MDMA to people with PTSD, I probably wouldn't call someone a drug addict if they became dependent on that drug after watching their mate get blown up in Afghanistan, maybe you would I don't know. They might be addicted to a drug, but I personally wouldn't use the term drug addict to describe them as it's basically an insult, but let's pretend you're using it in a balanced way
 
ExRayTed said:
Ahh, so it's euphoria or well being that makes the difference between dependence and addiction or have I misunderstood you?

Extrapolating from there, if well being is a side effect of a benzodiazepine that's been prescribed for severe depression, does this make the person an addict in your opinion? Does someone on an SSRI antidepressant who feels well being and a newfound euphoria at enjoying life have to admit they're addicts?

In my opinion addiction is a societal problem in the main, not an individual one. If people had more satisfying lives with real connections to those around them we wouldn't have nearly so many addicts looking for release from their circumstances. I'm certainly not defending people who rob and steal and damage lives to fuel addictions, but demonising them helps no one (and I'm not suggesting you are :) )
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I've was prescribed SSRI for panic attacks 20 years ago and the only feeling they gave me was a a feeling of normality after about 3 weeks of taking them. I wouldn't describe it as remotely close to euphoria, more relief at lowering of anxiety and just feeling myself again .

I've tried pretty much every drug that gets you high or changes your perception or reality at one time or another including benzos. I didn't do it because I was unsatisfied with my life or those around me. I did it because it broadened my reality allowing me to see the world from a different perspective and because it was fun and felt ******* great! That isn't to say there weren't a handful of unpleasant experiences along the way though.

I agree that addiction should be treated very differently. It should be moved from criminal justice to treatment and healthcare. Addicts should be supplied with drugs and given treatment to help them get off which ever drugs they are addicted to, support to stay off them and put their lives back together.

This however has strayed off topic. I'd still say he's a drug addict but I wouldn't judge him because of it.
 
Roar87 said:
They've prescribed a drug that can give a sense of euphoria to someone with severe depression because their wife has cancer, and you're holding that against him. They can prescribe MDMA to people with PTSD, I probably wouldn't call someone a drug addict if they became dependent on that drug after watching their mate get blown up in Afghanistan, maybe you would I don't know. They might be addicted to a drug, but I personally wouldn't use the term drug addict to describe them as it's basically an insult, but let's pretend you're using it in a balanced way
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You see I'm not holding it against him. I don't see it as an insult and the problem is you and others clearly do. We should wonder why he was prescribed them and why he kept being prescribed them as they should only be used for 30 days. We all know there is a big problem in the US with doctors over prescribing drugs which is obviously why they are in the middle of an opiate epidemic.

MDMA is used in a very controlled situation in conjunction with psychotherapy while they are on the drug and before and after. I'm really pleased they are using MDMA and psilocin to treat PTSD and extreme depression. Both are incredibly safe drugs, some of the other drugs prescribed for depression are quite the opposite.

Maybe you should try some MDMA dude. It might cheer you up or chill you out ;)
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
who the hell am I to judge them when I haven't walked in their shoes.
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Reminded me of an old line I once read which I think was a Billy Connolly line - Before you judge a man walk a mile in his shoes. After that who cares? He's a mile away and you've got his shoes. Made me smile :)

back on topic - some of the things I've seen JP say on Youtube really have resonated with me but other times not so much. I'm interested in his views on self help and psychology, not his politics.
 
Just watched a video on JP and his Jesus smuggling or as it was pointed out his Jesus smuggling smuggling as he never actually does it. He just leaves the door open for others to do it. I've watched a few of his videos now and he's incredibly clever in his choice of words. A very good orator but I'm no fan of his politics or his religious beliefs. He just can't let Christianity go and his belief its some how superior to all other religions. He can't get past his own bias and I've yet to hear him criticise the right where as Sam Harris who is a liberal will and does criticise the left just as much as the right.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
Just watched a video on JP and his Jesus smuggling or as it was pointed out his Jesus smuggling smuggling as he never actually does it. He just leaves the door open for others to do it. I've watched a few of his videos now and he's incredibly clever in his choice of words. A very good orator but I'm no fan of his politics or his religious beliefs. He just can't let Christianity go and his belief its some how superior to all other religions. He can't get past his own bias and I've yet to hear him criticise the right where as Sam Harris who is a liberal will and does criticise the left just as much as the right.
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I don't think I've ever heard him endorse or criticise the left or right. He has criticised SJWs numerous times because he feels (rightly) that they try to curb free speech, and the trans movement went after him because of the pronouns thing. Are you correlating that with an attack on the left, or have you got a clip where he more directly attacks them? I've watched a number of his videos, but they've all been philosophical rather than political or religious (although he does use the symbology of Christianity a lot).

Doobedoo said:
Never heard of the bloke.
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Cool story bro.
 
ExRayTed said:
Reminded me of an old line I once read which I think was a Billy Connolly line - Before you judge a man walk a mile in his shoes. After that who cares? He's a mile away and you've got his shoes. Made me smile :)
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Haha, I like that. :D

Pretty solid/textbook example of an after thought joke too...

back on topic - some of the things I've seen JP say on Youtube really have resonated with me but other times not so much. I'm interested in his views on self help and psychology, not his politics.
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#MeToo

Though I think a lot of the political stuff is just things hysterical SJW types project onto him... he's hardly right wing and he's certainly not a "fascist" etc... He's been critical of identity politics which has lead some right wing/conservative people to follow him but it isn't like all his fans/followers are right wing etc... Likewise the Cathy Newman interview probs got him a few sexist types etc... Also re: that interview, she's just didn't get him/completely misunderstood him (or perhaps her research prior to the show was tainted a bit by content from his critics) and was doing a lot of projecting herself - thus the train wreck where she keeps on trotting out "so you're saying..." and he's like "no".
 
He seems to be an intelligent, eloquent individual with some very well thought out ideas/beliefs based on years of study, while I don't agree with all of what he says some of his ideas certainly resonate with me. At very least he should be respected for his views and that he is so able to get them over to a wide audience.

Yeah what a **** we all know that ignorant triades by either the far left/right are the new "high ground", string him up and burn the heretic ;)
 
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