Jordan Peterson thread

[Scrutinize]

Thanks again @EVH.

One final thought: does anyone else find it ironic that he decries identity politics and then proceeds to label "SWJs" and "Lefties" (and academics) as Marxists.

No, I find that a fairly accurate objective viewpoint based on historical evidence of that movement and objective parallels to current behaviour.

The difference is that he is not forcing others to agree with his position and is fully cognisant that they don't and that it is not popular.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

The lobster part of the conversation was the most interesting to me. We are animals evolved from common ancestors, and if you look at any other species you will see evidence of hierarchy that isn't verbally communicated or consciously created. Why should humans be any different?

 

[dowie]

He’s the guy that came to prominence by completely misrepresenting the Canadian C-16 bill* and claiming he could get arrested for what he says in his lectures if it were passed.

Now considering the law is protecting people from workplace discrimination and advocation of genocide against groups you have to wonder. Either he’s intentionally misrepresenting the case for personal motives, he’s happy to quite vocally publically talk about things he doesn’t understand properly, or his lectures are dark.

Unfortunately that means you basically can’t trust anything he talks about without fact checking it first, but he’s eloquent so if he talks about things that fit your narrative then I’m sure he’s a great guy to listen to.

*A bill adding gender identity and gender expression to an existing act (the Canadian Human Rights Act to be precise) protecting people from discrimination on certain grounds, which already included race, national or ethnic origin, language, colour, religion, sex, age, mental or physical disability, and sexual orientation.

You've just unironically Cathy Newman'd him

 

[Mason-]

He doesn’t specify BLM (at least not in the videos I’ve watched) but he certainly alludes to organisations similar to them.

I can’t remember the exact passage but it was something along the lines of “lefties and liberals rely on identity politics, that’s what Mao did and it resulted in the death of millions.

I’m at work now but I’ll see if I can dig it out later.

I feel like you’re doing what Cathy Newman does in this video. He’s not saying they’re the same and she even uses the specific case of trans activists and comparing to Mao. He says they don’t speak entirely for all trans people in the same way BLM doesn’t speak for all black people. The similarity, and he is very clear, is their ideology of collectivism. And if we keep going down this path of grouping people it’ll lead to in groups and out groups which will lead to conflict.

 

[DAIR]

And that's what really grinds my gears about those groups. The media makes them out to be the true representatives of whichever group they claim to be a part of.

Don't assume you know me because of the way I look. Engage in dialogue. And then make a judgement.

 

[Irish_Tom]

No, I find that a fairly accurate objective viewpoint based on historical evidence of that movement and objective parallels to current behaviour.

The difference is that he is not forcing others to agree with his position and is fully cognisant that they don't and that it is not popular.

I think you misunderstood — the irony doesn’t come from the accuracy or not of the statement that “Lefties are Marxists”. It comes from (using his own words) “categorising someone based on their race or sexual or religious [or political] identity and making it a caneonical part of their being is a terrible thing to do”. He then proceeds to do exactly that.

I feel like you’re doing what Cathy Newman does in this video…

I believe I clarified my position in subsequent posts with accurate quotes using his exact words. In the post you quoted of mine, I was paraphrasing based on a number of videos that I’d mixed up (and subsequently apologies for).

 

[Judgeneo]

I think you misunderstood — the irony doesn’t come from the accuracy or not of the statement that “Lefties are Marxists”. It comes from (using his own words) “categorising someone based on their race or sexual or religious [or political] identity and making it a caneonical part of their being is a terrible thing to do”. He then proceeds to do exactly that.

Nice addition of [or political]...

 

[Irish_Tom]

Nice addition of [or political]...

Well yeah — he’s calling out people based on their political beliefs — that was kind of the point…

 

[Scrutinize]

I think you misunderstood — the irony doesn’t come from the accuracy or not of the statement that “Lefties are Marxists”. It comes from (using his own words) “categorising someone based on their race or sexual or religious [or political] identity and making it a caneonical part of their being is a terrible thing to do”. He then proceeds to do exactly that.

My response covered bilateral elements on the assumption you had made either presumption regarding the irony.

However, the context of what he is portraying around the application of Marxism is about the totalitarian oppression of freedom of speech for disagreement with the gender politic ideology. Ergo, inadvertantly they are removing freedoms of all groups including uncalculated self inflicted consequence.

 

[Judgeneo]

Well yeah — he’s calling out people based on their political beliefs — that was kind of the point…

Yes its entirely respectable to call people out based on what political beliefs that they hold. Unlike sexuality, race, gender etc, it is not an immutable characteristic

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

<snip>

It's interesting to play an inverse kind of Bingo game where 'House' occurs when someone can find a post by yourself that does not include the use of the word 'Marxism'.

 

[Scort]

As I put on facebook:

Jordan Peterson is by one and far the most clinical and collected speakers around. When you stop trying to be offended by what he says, and listen to the message he is conveying you can understand why the self-entitled are so eager to have him removed.

Everything he says is very thoughtfully and very carefully put forward, yet Cathy Newman try to twist everything he says to an agenda, one which he doesn't have so she falls flat on her face. The silence at 23:00 says it all, she actually listened to what the message was, and it left her lost for words. Ultimately his message, in my opinion, is people need to be responsible for their own progression through life, you can't expect to have it handed to you or made easy for you, which is completely against the grain of current society where every person is told they are unique, special and will be whatever they want to be when they grow up, what the message is failing to convey is you can be whatever you want to be, as long as you put the effort in.

Its called personal responsibility, no one is going to do it for you and the amount of people that get in the real world and are surprised that they have to work it out themselves baffles me.

This reply, is the definition of hitting the nail on the head - a thoughtful and well put reply in itself; worthy of Jordan Peterson himself.

He's always a pleasure to watch, as he is so calm, collected, and knows how to articulate his views. I think the first ever video I saw of him, was when he was surrounded by a bunch of SJWs all screaming at him and calling him a Nazi. Throughout which, he remained as calm as the interview in the OP. I did watch one recently though, where he did falter a little - as he was shown to be posing with people holding a frog pucture, and the interviewer was able to tie him up a tiny bit; but he still came out on top (imo).

 

[francky]

Irish_Tom would you consider yourself left wing? Do you feel that their is currently huge Inequalities in the world that need to be changed? (you've already pretty much answered this above).....do you feel women are oppressed in this country and in the West in general?

its just I'm reading your replies and comments and trying to see if you are being objective, or that your answers are biased based on your political views.

I personally feel that Peterson is rightly criticizing the far left and calling them out for their hypocrisy and the political pressure they are putting on society today..an example of which would be Vernon Mussington who was criminally charged in the UK for a hate crime for calling a trans person a "geezer"........if the far right were pushing their political view into modern society we would also be having similar discussions from similar intellectuals....its just because the Far Left cleverly wrap their dangerous views in empathy that nothing gets said.

For me, I feel like the enemy of the far left as someone who would consider them self very much center of politics....a middle class, straight white man...the privileged oppressor....the bigot...the misogynist.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

trying to see if you are being objective, or that your answers are biased based on your political views.

* spouts further response based on his biased political views

Good work champ!

 

[glenimp617]

I fear that in the future, people like him will be replaced with people like her

 

[Sankari]

@Irish_Tom

I’m surprised you have that view of him from the interview. I don’t recall him targeting ‘the left’ at all. I thought he came across as pretty liberal. He is, however, attacking specific ideas that are seemingly entrenched in modern politics (such as the idea that everyone’s wishes should be respected to the point of absurdity).

Peterson is conservative. He hates 'the left' with a burning passion.

 

[francky]

* spouts further response based on his biased political views

Good work champ!

Yes, but Im being open about my political view......hence why I explained my position......did I say his views are wrong? I just wanted to get a overall picture of his position.

Great response though champ!

 

[ttaskmaster]

That way, when challenged, he (or his followers) can say "Ah, but he didn't actually state that", even if it was clearly implied.

All I hear from a lot of his video 'debates' is that response - "That's not what I said...", "That's not what I said...", "That's not what I said...", "That's not what I said...", "That's not what I said...", "That's not what I said...", "That's not what I said...", "That's not what I said...".
It's not a debate, or even an interview, if the host isn't even listening.

TBH, it's all quite interesting and I like listening...
But if none of this is what he's saying, then what is he saying..... and what are we supposed to do with it?
Might as well tell me murder is wrong, but not offer suggestions for how we go about stopping it.

That might explain why they all think the national health service is akin to Communism…

What, everyone pays into this central resource where "everyone is equal but some are more equal than others"?
It does feel like that at times...

It's interesting to play an inverse kind of Bingo game where 'House' occurs when someone can find a post by yourself that does not include the use of the word 'Marxism'.

Ooh, ooh, House, House, House!!!
He's got one in response to me on P17 of the PC Correctness thread!

 

[kindai]

TBH, it's all quite interesting and I like listening...
But if none of this is what he's saying, then what is he saying..... and what are we supposed to do with it?
Might as well tell me murder is wrong, but not offer suggestions for how we go about stopping it.

The problem is, the interviewers try to twist what he says into a negative, but never asks for the suggestion!

This reply, is the definition of hitting the nail on the head - a thoughtful and well put reply in itself; worthy of Jordan Peterson himself.

Why thank you sir

 

[ltron]

Peterson is conservative. He hates 'the left' with a burning passion.

No, Peterson has described himself as a "Liberal" or "Classical Liberal", he is against the extremes on both sides of the political spectrum. If he were to run for office(which he has no interest in) the Canadian Liberal Party would most closely align with his beliefs. However, he believes that like many other centrist and left wing parties it's been infiltrated by radical leftists or SJWs which he is dead against. Watch his YouTube videos on whether he's alt right (which he's also very against).