This has a bearing on what? They are spending that on defence.
Juncker calls for the creation of an EU army.
- Thread starter Danthus
- Start date
This has a bearing on what? They are spending that on defence.
Man of Honour
A country that has regular financial difficulty is a bit more zealous with their spending. Who woulda thunk it?
So stop funding our own forces in order to fund an army we may not be able to call upon if the EU decides we can't?
Great plan.
If we just want another agreement on co-operation between existing forces, well that might work but then again might be rather redundant and could already be handled under existing structures such as NATO.
If we're actually talking about creating a new organisation and reducing national militaries in order to contribute to it then I really don't see that working too well at the moment. Certianly not for the UK - not all our interests are aligned for a start, we'd need to give up foreign policy to the EU really, otherwise you have some similar issues as the ECB/Euro where countries with different needs, making varied decisions on taxation/spending/debt etc... don't have control of their interest rates.
If we're actually talking about creating a new organisation and reducing national militaries in order to contribute to it then I really don't see that working too well at the moment. Certianly not for the UK - not all our interests are aligned for a start, we'd need to give up foreign policy to the EU really, otherwise you have some similar issues as the ECB/Euro where countries with different needs, making varied decisions on taxation/spending/debt etc... don't have control of their interest rates.
You make it sound like $100b would finally help us have a force able to compete with Russia etc. The UK defence budget is about $50b and the French budget is about $40b. The UK and France already match Russia's budget so how does having the majority of smaller, poorer EU states leeching are resources change the military playing field other than making us look bigger from a personnel numbers perspective.
Bingo, at lest someone other than me has realised this.
A single federal EU superstate is what these faceless EU bureaucrats are aiming force.
French and uk dint work together, it isn't an integrated unified force etc. The small countries wouldn't be leeching it. It would be an EU force with more spending than Russia. That's the whole point. You get far more for your money when you join together, than you do when it's all broken out, overlapping capabilities.
The thing is everybody knows that's coming, it's just impossible it won't happen.
It's always been the ultimate aim from day one, Ted Heath knew full well he wasn't simply taking us into a trading block.
So we have an EU army.
Can the UK call on it for its own use if it so wishes?
Lets say Russia park on the border of Poland, can Poland send in the EU army to fight Russia or would that need EU approval.
After all both are paying in, who decides and when and where it can be called upon?
EU decides on EU army, obviously. But it would send in the forces to defend EU territory.
Cutting our forces by 0.5% we would still have a sizable home forces.
A country pays in and that's that, you don't control it, you dont have a say, other than your representatives in the EU parliament.
Cutting our forces by 0.5% we would still have a sizable home forces.
A country pays in and that's that, you don't control it, you dont have a say, other than your representatives in the EU parliament.
Deleted member 66701
D
Deleted member 66701
Yes. As I said earlier, I'd like it to go further than that though.
What if the UK or Germany wants to veto the use of the EU army?
They wouldn't be able to. It's. It there army, it's the EUs. No different to UK parliament signing off in war.
That is the entire point of having an EU army, no country owns them, no country supplies them. It's EU equipment, soldiers apply and are trained by the EU into EU forces.
We do not need an EU army. We have NATO as well as a range of mutual cooperative military agreements already.
The biggest problem would be on of sovereignty, which is what this is really about. There would be a surrender of fundamental sovereignty over foreign policy and a change in how domestic funding of military contracts is addressed.
No, this would not be good for the UK, either in terms of our foreign commitments, defence infrastructure or defence industry.
Of course Juncker wants it though, he is a federalist and that is what this would ultimately be a very large step toward.
It won't happen though so I don't see the point in discussing it seriously.
The biggest problem would be on of sovereignty, which is what this is really about. There would be a surrender of fundamental sovereignty over foreign policy and a change in how domestic funding of military contracts is addressed.
No, this would not be good for the UK, either in terms of our foreign commitments, defence infrastructure or defence industry.
Of course Juncker wants it though, he is a federalist and that is what this would ultimately be a very large step toward.
It won't happen though so I don't see the point in discussing it seriously.
It simply wouldn't work. Each country would prioritise its own foreign and domestic agendas and politically that would make any such force ineffective and unwieldy.
It would only work in a federated system where each country becomes a subservient state to a EU federal Government. It would require the transfer of sovereignty to Europe.
And how do they do that, when they have zero control on an EU army. that is exactly why NATO is so ineffective. Everyone does there own bidding, and why an EU army is needed. But thanks fir showing why current system is so ineffective.
It only requires that the countries pay to the EU, which we already do, give some land to EU, we already give land to USA for bases. And new regulations on how EU parliament spend, declare war etc. It does not require full federation in the slightest.
The region on this planet in which the most vicious wars in history took place is now the only one on the planet which consists of various countries/cultures and in which war is unthinkable. That, to me, is quite an accomplishment.
A superstate is the next logical step in the evolution of politics, it will happen, with or without the UK, Greece, Hungary or any other sceptical government.
I believe Junker understands that an EU army is not realistic in the current political climate but, in the long term, the fact that it's a topic of discussion, is very important.
Last edited:
The soldiers would be British, French and German etc etc.
The idea that the elected heads of those three countries have no say in how those soldiers are used is laughable.
Soldato
The problem is the key diplomatic expertise on international relations is held within individual countries. I'm not sure an EU army could ever be truly autonomous until greater power is centralised. Negotiating over war would take place within a wider remit of economics, politics and military - an isolated army can't do all of that.
Nationality would be, but they would be EU soldiers. Britain etc would have no control over them.