Juncker calls for the creation of an EU army.

Castiel said:
Dismiss it if you want, but unfortunately nationalism is exactly what underpins the military.

And you are right, the EU and UK (and its other constituent members) contradict and disagree with each other daily...which is why the EU is so bureaucratic and takes an age to come to any form of compromised position, and also why the more powerful countries hold vetos or simply ignore EU edicts.

Imagine that in a defence situation...it would be a disaster.
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Oh no, because things can't be foreseen and planned for. I mean we couldn't say that there be no veto and a way for parliament to decide in a timely manner. No we could never foresee that and put the regulations in place.

Just yet more utterly stupid road blocks as you have nothing to say why it is actually a bad idea.

You are right though in one regard, it won't happen anytime soon, because of such petty thinking.
But it is the way EU and the world is heading just unlikely in our lifetimes. Every year race, country gets blurred a bit more. Mire and more rules become international. More and more people move around. Go back hundred years and people generally stayed where they were born. And now that's pretty uncommon.
 
Cosimo said:
That would really go down well with the French/ Germans and would also limit who could join so it really isn't that simple.
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Don't be daft. English is already the default language for many sectors of Europe including things like the European Central Bank and pretty much most of the financial sectors of Germany.
 
Cosimo said:
Juncker’s been smoking his federal weed again. :p

We have NATO and don’t need another organisation to defend us collectively. It’s just another excuse to give EU bureaucrats the opportunity to waste even more money and achieve nothing. It most certainly wouldn’t be a rapid reaction force and without doubt have more reverse gears then ever seen before.

Dream on baby, dream on....
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I believe that the issue is the US would drop us at a hat if the world situation turned completely for the worse. Our reliance on them for protection is a weakness in my eyes. Don't get me wrong, they are our closest ally and working with them regularly has been great for us. The benefits I have seen through my work place for example have been ten fold. However, I wouldn't trust them not to drop everything and look after themselves at the most dire of situations, as I would expect any nation, and unfortunately the US hold the power chords. Look at WWII, they were deliberating not stepping in and were considering the ramifications of post war corroboration with the nazis (there are no good vs bad guys).

One huge nation here would be much better. Collectively we would have the strongest economy and the greatest military. I'm all for it.
 
Glaucus said:
Oh no, because things can't be foreseen and planned for. I mean we couldn't say that there be no veto and a way for parliament to decide in a timely manner. No we could never foresee that and put the regulations in place.

Just yet more utterly stupid road blocks as you have nothing to say why it is actually a bad idea.

You are right though in one regard, it won't happen anytime soon, because of such petty thinking.
But it is the way EU and the world is heading just unlikely in our lifetimes. Every year race, country gets blurred a bit more. Mire and more rules become international. More and more people move around. Go back hundred years and people generally stayed where they were born. And now that's pretty uncommon.
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We only have to look at the attempt already in Strasbourg to see how unworkable this is...

And you underline my entire point, without federalism there will be no unified EU army. Unfortunately, what you call petty thinking, is endemic in the EU.

Im not against a federal Europe per se, I just think that the reality is that there are two many competing agendas for it to work...that might change, but not any time soon.
 
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None don't. Oh look a really underfunded barely can call it a force, with little change in EU regulations. It's not an example of how a proper EU forces would fail.
It just shows how a silly implemented, really under funded attempt fails. Nothing more.
 
NexusK said:
Don't be daft. English is already the default language for many sectors of Europe including things like the European Central Bank and pretty much most of the financial sectors of Germany.
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Ich würde nicht darauf verlassen, herrschen die Deutschen über den europäischen kommunistischen Gewerkschaft. Sie halten die Macht als auch Belgien. Nur die sozialistische Bürokratie werden als die wahren Führer der europäischen kommunistischen Vision akzeptiert. Wenn Sie denken, Englisch ist die Amtssprache des Ecu, dann sind Sie natürlich träumen können.
 
Glaucus said:
None don't. Oh look a really underfunded barely can call it a force, with little change in EU regulations. It's not an example of how a proper EU forces would fail.
It just shows how a silly implemented, really under funded attempt fails. Nothing more.
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It shows just how little anyone wants it. That's the point here Glaucus, the reason it's underfunded, unwieldy and ineffective is exactly because of the reasons I outlined. No one can agree or wants to submit significant resources or surrender sovereignty to do it properly. They spent years arguing over what language to use for a start.

And that would just be magnified in a larger force. Without federal governance and integrated foreign and domestic policies, it wouldn't work. It's better to invest in joint task force and mutual defence policies instead.
 
anything I don't mind said:
Ich würde nicht darauf verlassen, herrschen die Deutschen über den europäischen kommunistischen Gewerkschaft. Sie halten die Macht als auch Belgien. Nur die sozialistische Bürokratie werden als die wahren Führer der europäischen kommunistischen Vision akzeptiert. Wenn Sie denken, Englisch ist die Amtssprache des Ecu, dann sind Sie natürlich träumen können.
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Please shut up. It's not big nor clever.
 
Despite impending cuts in the armed forces of many of its member nations, NATO remains by far the largest military force in the world, outstripping any potential rivals in terms of numbers and defense expenditures, according to annual statistics released by the alliance.
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The above article goes on to confirm the combined military budget of NATO is over £1trillion. Why do we need an EU army whilst a better alliance is already in place?
 
Castiel said:
Please shut up. It's not big nor clever.
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It is hilarious. What makes it so funny is the people that are so thick that they would actually encourage further federalism, given the extent to which the current attempts have already failed miserably. Same people would vote for their own tyranny.

ECU has been a complete failure in every way conceivable. There has not been one positive that has come about as a result of the EU that would not have come about anyway.
 
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He obviously means shut up to your German posts which I'm sure are annoying most people...even those that share your point of view on the topic.
 
Lima said:
The above article goes on to confirm the combined military budget of NATO is over £1trillion. Why do we need an EU army whilst a better alliance is already in place?
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Because NATO won't fight the EUs battles.
Because most of the member states cutting the military down to dangerous levels are in the EU, who they have started to re-realise that having a military is useful.
Because they think they can use it as a way of forcing Britain and France to deploy in eastern europe, where there is little threat to them directly.
Because it is a tool to force member states to surrender policy and soviegnity, making rebelling again the EU more difficult.
Because the heads of the EU are all power seeking professional politicians, who think that a tenure at the head of their own country is not enough, and seeking to rule a european empire is the natural next step for them.

EDIT:
Because after winning a nobel peace prize, the natural next step is to create an army.
 
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Glaucus said:
EU forces.
EU equipment, eu soldiers, EU training, operating out if EU bases, they are EU. Nothing to do with any single country.
Equipment would be purchased for the EU forces, soldiers would be contract to the EU forces, not loaned.
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Would it perhaps recruit from outside of the EU ? Otherwise surely the people involved (and these are people, not military robots) would have complicated loyalties.

Would we expect Greeks to die in Poland under the command of a German ?
 
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