Junior Doctors Strikes

fez said:
Right, but what you are forgetting is that isn't the current governments problem. This is the crux of all the **** decision making from governments. The rich old ***** will have their money and be insulated from any crisis and everyone else will be left holding the bags. There is no future planning beyond "have we got a bit of money in the bank now".

There will be an entire generation that don't own property, are overweight and unhealthy and when they come to retire (into their 70s) it will break the system.

As to the doctors raising their rates, its scummy. Theres no two ways about it. Its profiteering and I am astounded anyone supports it.
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Lol I agree,

I have always said policy by governments are only design for their term. The lasting impact could be 30 years away.

When I even refer to say dentists the impact is felt now but labour changed the terms.

I have noticed people assume many things, like a change that is not a real change.

They blame current but forget that the past governments are as much to blame.

The property issue is going to be mental in 20years. The council tax could be unaffordable for some.

Everyone is cutting to keep the system going. central gov cutting money to local gov. This mean local gov need to reduce services to balance the books.

Sell sell the peoples assets, how long do you think that would last.

Then the idiots that think the value of their property has risen and forget that it will get to a point their children will pay or be forced to sell the family home as It surpasses IHT.

While large corporations will snap it up and rent it out.

This is the UK economic model now.
 
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If it’s anything like the nurses are striking over then no. Do nurses get paid overtime after they’re contracted 37.5 hours per week at x1.5 ? God I wish I was on a 37.5 hour week contract. I think most of the UK work a 45 hr week for their salary .

If you’re doing 50 to 60 hour weeks with a large proportion at x 1.5 you ain’t doing bad.
 
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I’m not sure how much a consultant should be paid as emergency cover out of hours. £262 an hour doesn’t seem all that bad to me.

I guess the barrister’s legal fees for when you’re suing the NHS for not providing proper care will be reasonable at least.
 
Bald-Eagle22 said:
If it’s anything like the nurses are striking over then no. Do nurses get paid overtime after they’re contracted 37.5 hours per week at x1.5 ? God I wish I was on a 37.5 hour week contract. I think most of the UK work a 45 hr week for their salary .

If you’re doing 50 to 60 hour weeks with a large proportion at x 1.5 you ain’t doing bad.
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If you’re unhappy with pay and working conditions then find something else?

This is the bilge that people come up with when dismayed by the nursing attitude to wanting decent recompense for their work isn’t it?
 
tom_nieto said:
I’m not sure how much a consultant should be paid as emergency cover out of hours. £262 an hour doesn’t seem all that bad to me.

I guess the barrister’s legal fees for when you’re suing the NHS for not providing proper care will be reasonable at least.
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It only the compensation was that easy or reflective of the level of damage.
 
Goodie said:
If you’re unhappy with pay and working conditions then find something else?

This is the bilge that people come up with when dismayed by the nursing attitude to wanting decent recompense for their work isn’t it?
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The problem I think is the lack of true affordable property, the frustration of not being able to own a home. The the amount of different fines and taxes people have to pay leads in my opinion to anxiety of life.
 
Bald-Eagle22 said:
If it’s anything like the nurses are striking over then no. Do nurses get paid overtime after they’re contracted 37.5 hours per week at x1.5 ? God I wish I was on a 37.5 hour week contract. I think most of the UK work a 45 hr week for their salary .

If you’re doing 50 to 60 hour weeks with a large proportion at x 1.5 you ain’t doing bad.
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Except that no one should be forced to do 50-60 hour weeks in a civilised country to earn enough to live on (left alone in a "skilled" job), and it's pretty terrible for both long term performance and safety to be doing those hours, especially in situations where they are expected to be fully with it and alert

To put things in perspective a pilot is not allowed to do more than 32 hours in any 7 day period, and no more than something like 8-10 per shift with minimum mandated rest periods between their shifts in which they are meant to be sleeping/resting (there are fairly strict penalties for both the pilots and the companies for breaching these sort of rules*).

A UK nurse or doctor can often be expected (and legally required) to work far longer than 12 hours if the employer doesn't have enough staff to meet "minimum staffing levels" (IIRC they're not legally allowed to "clock off" and head home until there is a replacement), and they have little or no guaranteed rest period between shifts.

*Mainly because of the number of high profile accidents that cost tens of millions, or large numbers of lives from a single mistake caused or made worse by someone who was too fatigued to be thinking clearly when something happened. But apparently because only one person at a time is likely to die when a Doctor or a Nurse is too exhausted to think clearly and makes a mistake it doesn't result in national rule changes.
 
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Trifid said:
Might focus the minds of those in charge to stop the strikes if there are financial consequences from inaction.
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Thats the one. If we cover all the JDs work then the trusts are laughing and putting no pressure on NHSE. The only people affected are all the patients in clinic and the elective surgeries but being honest the waits are so long no trust cares.

If we make it expensive the trusts get really unhappy and start shouting at NHSE. Hopefully common sense will prevail and the Gov will just give this money to the JDs to abort the strike.
 
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tom_nieto said:
I’m not sure how much a consultant should be paid as emergency cover out of hours. £262 an hour doesn’t seem all that bad to me.

I guess the barrister’s legal fees for when you’re suing the NHS for not providing proper care will be reasonable at least.
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Try getting a Barrister to work 3 nights at 2 weeks notice, that's not going to be cheap. There is nothing wrong with knowing your worth.

This morning I've just dropped from my job as a Consultant who should be at home most of the day to a 14 hour shift as a Registrar and then back to Consultant for tonight. Good times. I'll be billing the Trust for that too. In the real world I could name my price, there is no one that would do the job but me but medics bend over backwards to work for less and less every year.
 
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Goodie said:
If you’re unhappy with pay and working conditions then find something else?

This is the bilge that people come up with when dismayed by the nursing attitude to wanting decent recompense for their work isn’t it?
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So if you read my post it was a question.

Thanks you confirmed what I thought 37.5 Hours a week is borderline part time and your wanting a 17.6% pay rise - your deluded.

Let me suggest what’s going to happen here and the same will probably happen with Junior Doctors. Your funding your own pay rise by each strike day you take and with inflation slowly dropping you will probably be offered circa 7% later in the year . You already paid for it and the government will boast an inflation beating pay rise , they won’t care as a year later some lefty coalition in government will have to deal with it.

If your that unhappy then just work to rule and press for the old student nurse system to come back into place with a return of service for training, same for Doctors.
 
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Werewolf said:
Except that no one should be forced to do 50-60 hour weeks in a civilised country to earn enough to live on (left alone in a "skilled" job), and it's pretty terrible for both long term performance and safety to be doing those hours, especially in situations where they are expected to be fully with it and alert

To put things in perspective a pilot is not allowed to do more than 32 hours in any 7 day period, and no more than something like 8-10 per shift with minimum mandated rest periods between their shifts in which they are meant to be sleeping/resting (there are fairly strict penalties for both the pilots and the companies for breaching these sort of rules*).

A UK nurse or doctor can often be expected (and legally required) to work far longer than 12 hours if the employer doesn't have enough staff to meet "minimum staffing levels" (IIRC they're not legally allowed to "clock off" and head home until there is a replacement), and they have little or no guaranteed rest period between shifts.

*Mainly because of the number of high profile accidents that cost tens of millions, or large numbers of lives from a single mistake caused or made worse by someone who was too fatigued to be thinking clearly when something happened. But apparently because only one person at a time is likely to die when a Doctor or a Nurse is too exhausted to think clearly and makes a mistake it doesn't result in national rule changes.
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And your profession agrees to this , do you sign a working time directive disclaimer ?

NHS is broken , no matter how much money is thrown at it it not going to get fixed anytime soon before it’s privatised. With a population of 40 million at its inception in the 40’s to nearly 70 million now it’s will continue to decline as it has done since the 70’s , something I’m sure all health professionals already know but let’s just add fuel to the fire and ask for a 17.6% pay rise for nurses and junior doctors what is it now 35%.
 
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Blueball said:
Whats poor about it? The fact that you don't like it?
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The graph has minor visual problems, very poor any Scale, it has bunched up time . They select avg inflation above spending for a group, don’t portray a continuous range of time, deceit the viewer by manipulating the visual data, to exaggerate the rate.
They should have used two graphs a bar chat for range and/or 2 line for yearly inflation v spending.
 
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Mrwong said:
The graph has minor visual problems, very poor any Scale, it has bunched up time . They select avg inflation above spending for a group, don’t portray a continuous range of time, deceit the viewer by manipulating the visual data.
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What part of "Average Annual Rise" are you struggling to understand?
 
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