Junior Doctors Strikes

There are not many other public sector workers that require the level of education, the workload, the lack of work stability, the moving around the country regularly, the risk of losing everything (e.g. laptop gate), years of paid exams and fees, the lack of guaranteed future job, the stress, the hours, the shift patterns, the literal daily life and death responsibilities.

Some do of course. But let's not pretend it's the same as a school or council job.

I would argue that lack of a guaranteed future job is definitely not a concern. There will always be a demand for medical personnel. Unlike many jobs that will be lost to automation or AI, medical will probably be one of the last.
 
So on a five day week you’re doing 7.5 hours a day!

I can tell you now as a former department head in said private sector ( I’m old enough to be semi retired now ) my collective hours were a lot more than 37.5 . Most weeks were 50 plus and even more , ok I was on a massive bonus structure but even so ! All my team were on 45 hour weeks .


I think you might find that if the general public realise you’re all on 37.5 hr weeks and want a 17% and 35% pay rise a lot of sympathy will go out of the window . Even if you get it (and you won’t ) who’s going to pay for it ?
Contracted hours typically always sit around 37.5 or 39 hours. Hours worked obviously differs. Boomers for some reason seem the most validated by sitting at desk for 20-30% more unpaid for the same output.
 
Why the race to the bottom all the time? People should be looking to work less hours not more.

That would be the dream wouldn't it.

In reality though, if everyone dropped their hours and pay by 20% (let's be realistic that companies aren't going to continue 100% pay for only 80% productivity*) then the Treasury's income would take a hit and more public services would suffer.

*I'm aware some countries/companies have been trialing a 4 day working week, but I'm lead to believe this is the same number of hours just squeezed into 4 days rather than 5. (IIRC?)
 
I would argue that lack of a guaranteed future job is definitely not a concern. There will always be a demand for medical personnel. Unlike many jobs that will be lost to automation or AI, medical will probably be one of the last.
Do not be so sure, A.I will easy the strain on resources, gp numbers will be reduced. GPs are on limited time.

In 50 or so years you will walk in give blood, take scans and sensors , this will provide the information.

The jobs that will be safe will be electricians, builders etc for another for 100 years. So start buying up land, put it into a spv pass it on to others.

Most middle class jobs in the information field will be wiped out. Information service replaced by A.I.
 
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Do not be so sure, A.I will easy the strain on resources, gp numbers will be reduced. GPs are on limited time.

In 50 or so years you will walk in give blood, take scans and sensors , this will provide the information.

The jobs that will be safe will be electricians, builders etc for another for 100 years. So start buying up land, put it into a spv pass it on to others.

Most middle class jobs in the information field will be wiped out. Information service replaced by A.I.

That level of medical technology is at least a century or two away. AI will certainly start edging its way in, but not for complete replacement.

Also I find it intriguing that you think the medical field can be easily replaced by AI/Automation, yet you still think there will be a need for electricians and builders?

At some point in the future, it'll be a case of a robot deploying a big printer and printing out the structure and electricals included - no need for electricians or builders then.
 
I would argue that lack of a guaranteed future job is definitely not a concern. There will always be a demand for medical personnel. Unlike many jobs that will be lost to automation or AI, medical will probably be one of the last.

Medicine is absolutely one of the best areas for AI and its already been shown to be far better at diagnostics that humans in some areas. Fairly soon operations will be performed by robots which are not ultimately managed by humans. Very few peoples jobs are safe unless they are doing soft skills work. I reckon that will probably be what doctors end up doing more of. Curated data entry almost.
 
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Medicine is absolutely one of the best areas for AI and its already been shown to be far better at diagnostics that humans in some areas. Fairly soon operations will be performed by robots which are not ultimately managed by humans. Very few peoples jobs are safe unless they are doing soft skills work. I reckon that will probably be what doctors end up doing more of. Curated data entry almost.

I'd agree for very routine/repetitive procedures, but a lot of these medical documentaries show that while a surgeon can prepare for a surgical operation with scans and what not, it's only until they've made the first cut can they actually assess what steps need to be taken. And even worse, if something goes wrong how to react to it.
 
That level of medical technology is at least a century or two away. AI will certainly start edging its way in, but not for complete replacement.

Also I find it intriguing that you think the medical field can be easily replaced by AI/Automation, yet you still think there will be a need for electricians and builders?

At some point in the future, it'll be a case of a robot deploying a big printer and printing out the structure and electricals included - no need for electricians or builders then.

I said gps are on limited time, they will be the first to go. Most of the medical field will be swallowed up by tech.

It’s pretty depressing when you come to think how technology has publicly been pushed as helping and making us more efficient, the reality is for which group.
 
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I'd agree for very routine/repetitive procedures, but a lot of these medical documentaries show that while a surgeon can prepare for a surgical operation with scans and what not, it's only until they've made the first cut can they actually assess what steps need to be taken. And even worse, if something goes wrong how to react to it.

Thats where the AI will come in. There will always be a medical professional involved in some way but you can probably rely on the AI to know how to behave in many situations and defer when its not sure.

The bigger issue with AI is peoples inability to rationalise mistakes from computers. People seem happier to have 100 mistakes by humans than 1 from a computer.
 
Medicine is absolutely one of the best areas for AI and its already been shown to be far better at diagnostics that humans in some areas. Fairly soon operations will be performed by robots which are not ultimately managed by humans. Very few peoples jobs are safe unless they are doing soft skills work. I reckon that will probably be what doctors end up doing more of. Curated data entry almost.
Would love to see AI/robots do my job, good bloody luck to them!
 
That level of medical technology is at least a century or two away. AI will certainly start edging its way in, but not for complete replacement.

Also I find it intriguing that you think the medical field can be easily replaced by AI/Automation, yet you still think there will be a need for electricians and builders?

At some point in the future, it'll be a case of a robot deploying a big printer and printing out the structure and electricals included - no need for electricians or builders then.
One of my friends is/was working on methods of automating wiring in things like ship building a few years back, not completely replacing humans but if they could work it out replacing the need for humans to be involved in various parts of the "surface" wiring (things like the stuff that goes on the bulkheads, especially low voltage/low current wiring for things like comms/signalling between systems). Something like a house would be relatively simple to do away with an electrician for everything but the actual hook up of the wiring if you used an automated system to place that wiring, and it's the running of wiring that typically takes much of the time, hence why that part of the job is already often done largely by the apprentice/builder.

If anything I'd imagine that the average skill/technical level of the doctors would go up as has already happened as more and better diagnostic tools have become available, as an AI/computer still isn't going to be able to get the "feel" for what questions need to be asked or what patient isn't saying, or what that odd thing could be.
 
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One of my friends is/was working on methods of automating wiring in things like ship building a few years back, not completely replacing humans but if they could work it out replacing the need for humans to be involved in various parts of the "surface" wiring (things like the stuff that goes on the bulkheads, especially low voltage/low current wiring for things like comms/signalling between systems). Something like a house would be relatively simple to do away with an electrician for everything but the actual hook up of the wiring if you used an automated system to place that wiring, and it's the running of wiring that typically takes much of the time, hence why that part of the job is already often done largely by the apprentice/builder.

If anything I'd imagine that the average skill/technical level of the doctors would go up as has already happened as more and better diagnostic tools have become available, as an AI/computer still isn't going to be able to get the "feel" for what questions need to be asked or what patient isn't saying, or what that odd thing could be.
A.I is all about, replication of the human mind.

A.I is not about automations, the end goal is replicating human processing and logic.
Taking out all the inefficiencies or errors, it pretty scary when you start to really dig into it.
 
I said gps are on limited time, they will be the first to go. Most of the medical field will be swallowed up by tech.

It’s pretty depressing when you come to think how technology has publicly been pushed as helping and making us more efficient, the reality is for which group.

Hopefully by then no one will need to work. If you have robots that work for free there is literally no need for money when that point comes.
 
Interesting stat I heard the other day though, a quarter (8 million people) of the UK workforce now work part time!
and those in pt are claiming benefits to compensate while having more self time.

The government can’t do more regarding the low numbers of unemployed, now they are attacking the massive numbers of part time workers claiming. The lower class economic loophole.
 
I said gps are on limited time, they will be the first to go. Most of the medical field will be swallowed up by tech.

It’s pretty depressing when you come to think how technology has publicly been pushed as helping and making us more efficient, the reality is for which group.

Not sure I agree there either. With more and more people requiring help with their mental health these days, I would probably argue that GPs are more likely to be around.
 
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*I'm aware some countries/companies have been trialing a 4 day working week, but I'm lead to believe this is the same number of hours just squeezed into 4 days rather than 5. (IIRC?)

I think it depends on the Country. Plenty of them have gone with reducing overall hours in their trial. The test is to see if productivity stays the same, which on the whole it does seem to be doing.

Here in the UK we've just had a 6 month trial, with 61 companies and 3,500 employees.

In the trial, employees are expected to follow the "100:80:100 model" - 100 per cent of the pay for 80 per cent of the time, in exchange for a commitment to maintaining at least 100 per cent productivity.

It seems to have been successful with 92% of those company's making the change permanent.
 
I think it depends on the Country. Plenty of them have gone with reducing overall hours in their trial. The test is to see if productivity stays the same, which on the whole it does seem to be doing.

Here in the UK we've just had a 6 month trial, with 61 companies and 3,500 employees.



It seems to have been successful with 92% of those company's making the change permanent.
A friends company took part, they had excellent results and will be continuing. Happy staff, better productivity.
 
and those in pt are claiming benefits to compensate while having more self time.

The government can’t do more regarding the low numbers of unemployed, now they are attacking the massive numbers of part time workers claiming. The lower class economic loophole.

Being caught in the Tory benefit trap does seem to be part of the issue, where working more hours just doesn't pay due to the loss of benefits. I thought UC was supposed to combat that, so it doesn't look like it has.

Another aspect I assume is this reevaluation of life post Covid, with a lot of the over 50 workforce able and willing to work less.
 
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