I know, although that previous 30% covered multiple years.
A hell of a lot of people will have had >25% pay rises if you start totting it up over 3 years like that.
National minimum wage is up 28% over the same period.
Junior Doctors Strikes
- Thread starter Dr House
- Start date
I know, although that previous 30% covered multiple years.
A hell of a lot of people will have had >25% pay rises if you start totting it up over 3 years like that.
National minimum wage is up 28% over the same period.
Exactly it's so disingenuous the way it's reported.
People should also plot CPI/CPIH compounded increase over the same timespam to give the true real wage rises. (Hint: it's a lot less than 30%)
Caporegime
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They had 30% to cover more than one year with an agreement to progress towards full pay restoration, then were handed a sub inflation pay rise the following year.
Whether FPR is deserved or not is debatable but the Residents have the power to cost the Governemnt a great deal of money, which I suspect is why Wes its throwing his toys out the pram, he can't win.
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Being in a public service monopoly can be a bad thing I suppose, you need some seniority to strike out on a bit of private enterprise. Although locums are a thing if you haven't reached consultant ranks.
I don't think that the general population has had continuous real term increases in pay since decimalisation in the nineteen seventies so why are doctors so unique?
Going overseas does cut it, that is how many engineers, doctors and other professionals break the ceiling. At least while young and not too attached.
Which is my point, expecting pay restoration based on inflation it’s for the birds.
Their pay tracking below inflation is not unique and demanding pay restoration based on it just is tone death.
Don’t get me wrong, pay is an issue but they need to bring forward a realistic proposal that is credible.
The government made a good offer last year and offered something reasonable this year (it was above inflation at the time it was offered). Clearly they are making a genuine efforts to increase remuneration.
The workforce has thrown it back in their face.
Pay isn’t the only issue, training places and costs are another. It needs wholesale reform but that’s another conversation.
Soldato
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i dont know the answer but if you give them more everyone wants more, and where does the "more" come from??
Caporegime
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Taxation and cost saving.
That is what Rachel is pondering.
A bit of revisionism there.
There was no promise to bring forward full pay restoration right away which is what is being demanded now.
This years pay offer was above inflation at the time it was offered, that is working towards pay restoration.
It was also more than another other public sector worker was offered including other NHS workers.
The resident doctors have already done themselves out of more money than they can ever hope to gain at the rate they are going.
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They have had pay increases totalling 29% over the last three years, it wasn't all in one year.
The reason they want more is because it needs to be increased by a further 30-35% in order to put it back where it was prior to the Tories implementation of pay cuts/freezes.
Prior to the 2008 banking crisis, I think you will find that is what they are claiming. The coalition did not take over until 2010.
Caporegime
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I dont think the BMA have ever suggested they want FPR in one year.
The 2025-2026 rise may have been above inflation at the time, I hadn't realised it was 5.4%+ £750, if I'm honest that seems pretty OK.
The Gov ceiling of 2.5% for 2026-2027 probably isn't helping matters though.
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Pay review bodies won’t report until June or July 26 so I can’t see how anyone can preempt that or base any strike action on that though.
The 25-26 offer was more than fair, far higher than any other public sector worker by a considerable margin.
The 25-26 offer was more than fair, far higher than any other public sector worker by a considerable margin.
They can very easily, to use an analogy, if I tell you that in summer next year I am going to release a report on what two plus two equals and you know that I am not mentally impaired then it's pretty safe for you to make plans under the presumption my report will find it to be four.
This is ignoring the fact that this isn't just about raising pay but about restoring it to what it should have been if not for years of coalition/tory government freezes to agreed pay scales and effective pay cuts.
To be clear, this isn't just about money it's also about patient safety. Years of frozen/cut pay has had a direct effect on the workforce which has had a direct effect on treatment timescales, waiting lists, etc. Restoring pay will have a knock on effect on improving the NHS (just like freezing/cutting it had a knock on detrimental effect), it's not simply a case of people wanting more money.
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Yeah but this happens all over the place, companies routinely do pay freezes and then do not reimburse for the freeze later on, same with benefit freezes, without reimbursements, its life, as horrible as it is, if the doctors were able to get such a deal, it would be extremely unusual. You then after that have a snowball effect where suddenly every public employee wants the same reimbursement.
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If this is the kind of argument the BMA are putting forward, no wonder Wes Streeting is losing his collective marbles.
As many people have said many times, this is for the birds.
Hardly anyone pay has kept up with RPI, public sector or not.
The offer from the government is consistent with improving the pay of doctors and is above inflation.
RPI is also a flawed method of calculating inflation which is why hardly anyone actually uses it anymore and most things moved away from it ages ago.
If you use CPI, doctors pay isn’t that far off what it ‘should’ be following the last 3 years uplift and this one.
Soldato
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As I write this I am on Discord chatting to a family member who became an NHS consultant last month.
He says that the Drs are still angry about poor pay rises since 2008 and the average age of a Junior Dr is ~31, which means they were in primary school at the time.
He says the whole idea of them striking is ridiculous, but he gets over £180 per hour to cover the strikes if he wants (£250 per hour on nights).
I haven't fact checked the above, I am simply sharing the opinion of someone who has lived it.
He says that the Drs are still angry about poor pay rises since 2008 and the average age of a Junior Dr is ~31, which means they were in primary school at the time.
He says the whole idea of them striking is ridiculous, but he gets over £180 per hour to cover the strikes if he wants (£250 per hour on nights).
I haven't fact checked the above, I am simply sharing the opinion of someone who has lived it.
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Well there's a reason there's Consultants encouraging the strikes...
How much has pay fallen for resident doctors?published at 11:31
11:31
Nicholas Barrett and Anthony Reuben
BBC Verify
Resident doctors (formerly known as junior doctors) who are members of the British Medical Association (BMA) have begun a five-day strike in England.
Dr Tom Dolphin, chair of the BMA Council told BBC Radio 4 this morning: “We've got pay that is still a fifth down on the value that it had in 2008.”
To make this claim the BMA has adjusted resident doctors’ pay for inflation using the Retail Prices Index (RPI) rather than the Consumer Prices Index (CPI) which is more commonly used.
The RPI measure usually shows prices are rising faster than CPI - in part because it includes housing costs. RPI lost its status as a national statistic in 2013, external because of problems with the way it is calculated.
Measured using RPI, resident doctors’ pay is 19% lower than it was in 2008. But measured using CPI, it’s 7% lower.
Since 2023, pay for resident doctors has increased by 28.9%. They have been offered 5.4% for the current financial year.
Enough said.
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CPIH would be better. The H standing for housing. UK index linked gilts still are indexed to RPI at great cost but this is changing to CPIH from 2030.
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