Just dropped a deposit on some M Power - Trackday Project Car

[Gibbo]

HI there

Wheels are on, the fronts took a lot of messing, using a heat gun to push the arch liners back to stop them rubbing, but thankfully guys at JPR very helpful and have the tools for such task. But now they fit and no rubbing on the front.

Also being able to get rid of all the spacers as well which is good, front fitment is perfect, I might space the rears out 3-5mm if I do.

Also CSL exhaust is fitted, but think its either broken or catching on something, seems to be making some resonance which it should not, but the rear box is only being held on with two exhaust hangers when it should be three, so it has some un-wanted movements which could be cause of un-wanted noise. Getting a new mount from BMW on Monday.

The exhaust centre section was far lighter being a CSL part, infact crazy how light it was, the backbox is easily twice the weight of the ebay sports exhaust which was on it, but extra weight at the rear at bottom of the car not so bad, will aid traction.

To drive the CSL exhaust is far better, the centre pipe CSL version is H design, whereas as the Ebay special on their was just straight pipes, so car has way more mid-range pull then it did previously and at light throttle is now completely silent inside with zero drone. Partial throttle not so good, but full throttle and it sounds rather exotic, though still loud. Still an improvement in both sound and even more so in drivability.

Some pictures of the wheels fitted:-

Got camber?

 

[Gibbo]

Are those the standard M3 cross drilled brakes? They don't look cross drilled in the pictures or am I just being blind?

Looks really really nice though, it's coming along well it seems!

Nope. Performance friction 2 piece disc all round with PF08 pads.

 

[Gibbo]

How's that working out mate?

Blown that I reckon, £1600 on new wheels and tyres, £350 on exhaust, £1000 of coilovers, £200 on pads, £1000 on bumper/bootlid and painting, £400 on remap, £600 on servicing and probably lots on other stuff.

Still I've sold so far:-
Old wheels and tyres - £200
Old exhaust - £250
Old stero and bits - £500

So selling stuff the car came with has netted me nearly £1000 back, not bad.

The good news it is now 99% complete, doorcards to be fitted, bootlid to be fitted, tweaking of exhaust to get it sounding right, it is more or less done.

So perfect timing for a lot of track days and maybe a Euro trip.

 

[Gibbo]

Car is looking great with those wheels, how are the cup tyres in this weather?

Hope there are some OcUK events this year and I get a ride in it

Better than the Federal POS that is for sure, simple fact is you can get heat into the cups, even in cold/wet conditions and heat means grip. The Federals were struggling to get heat into even on a wet trackday, they are nothing short of terrible in anything but dry/warm conditions. Cheap for a reason!

Next year the cup 2 will be available, so the wet performance of supersports and the longer lifespan too incorporated into new cups, so those will be perfect.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Well today I had the problem of having such a sorted track car, I took it out on the road, why is this a problem, well the track tyres, brakes all get worn out, do I regret taking the car out on the road for a good blast? NO!

The cups and new wheels have transformed the cars handling and feedback, got about 100 miles on them now and even though the roads were not bone dry, a little damp in places, the cups are providing way more grip than the Federals did at Summer. Seriously the car is sticking to the road like **** to a blanket, it is incredible the cornering speeds this thing can generate.

Acceleration just seems mind boggling now, not that I have tried but I am confident the car would pull to around 160mph without even showing signs of slowing, shall get the racelogic box back on the car to compare with previous acceleration times, but it feels substancially faster.

Fingers crossed for dry weather this Saturday and I shall be going to Donnington!

 

[Gibbo]

Awesome - it should be fantastic at Donington with the Cups.

The exhaust resonance sounds odd - mine resonated really badly when I got it, and it turned out to be a loose flange bolt (I just did it up and it was fine). I'd check those first, hopefully it's not anything inside the box that is doing it.

Yep going to get the third mount from BMW tomorrow for the back box as only held on with two right now, shall fit that and then check everything is tight.

Went out in the guys M3 today who has had my wheels and exhaust, with his rear seats folded down his car had zero rasp and was very quiet. So it's withdraw you say something loose or the CSL back box is a lot more raspy than regular one. Shall see might just be a case I need a regular M3 back box to get the noise down.

 

[Gibbo]

Looks SO much better now. Just need to return the front and side grille to stock and it will look perfect.

They are stock?

 

[Gibbo]

I just mean back to stock colour. Not a fan of the black, especially now you've sorted the wheels out

Ah. well stock colour is chrome I believe and I prefer black, so will stick with that, not much for the chrome grill on the stock car, so will stick with black. But yes the wheels I love them, silver was the right choice, very happy with those.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Little update, CSL mid-pipe is on, M3 backbox is fitted, CSL one had a baffle gone so it was cheaper to just buy another from Ebay, this time all fine. Cruising around with light to mid throttle everything is very quiet. 3500-4500rpm it is rather raspy still but M3's are and it seems no different than another from outside, just a little louder due to 100 cel cats and CSL mid-pipe. Full throttle it just sounds right, still can't really hear engine sound, but the noise now is very nice, race car.

Best thing though is huge amounts more mid-range power, which obviously comes from the H design in the mid-pipe.

Also fitted a CSL style carbon/fibre glass rear diffuser:-

Very happy with that and the car is driving absolutely amazing, so so happy with it. If weather report is still positive for Saturday, I shall be going on another trackday at Donnington, hopefully it will be dry all day. Then I shall be off to Oulton Park in a few weeks.

Bootlid gets painted and fitted next week, when that is all done I shall try to make an effort to give the car a good cleaning and get some proper photos done.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Tomorrow is seems I shall have a dry Donnington to myself:-
http://www.bookatrack.com/venue/view/id/5

Only 29 cars booked so far with about 14 spaces left including BAT hire.

Gonna have the track to myself and weather is showing sunny all day. CAN'T WAIT!!


P.S. Anyone want to drop by for a passenger ride, feel free to do so.

 

[Gibbo]

Sounds good, goes well. Did a 1.24.9.

There's a lot of difference between this and my junkyard 328, my eyes are opened a bit. Surprised by how the balance is so different, similar settings yet the M3 seems quite tight where mine is quite loose, perhaps it's down to the driving style. Michelin Cup tyres are really very good.

Good afternoon out, thanks for taking me round Gibbo.

Clarkey

I am surprised how good it sounds, plenty of induction/engine noise for sure and its on the standard airbox.

Went to my mates garage, the fluid is completely boiled and toast, checked some of my videos back, I managed a 1:23 this morning, still not bad at all considering I had no confidence in the brakes, but now we know why the fluid is toast.

Feel pretty annoyed to be honest that I missed something like brake fluid, no idea what previous owner used, but that's irrelevant I should have sorted that as one of the first things.

RBF600 going in tomorrow.

Shall see if that feels, if still not good enough, then time to get saving for some APs, think the car has a 1:18-1:20 in it with me getting everything perfect and brakes on par with the 911.

In the 911 that was where I always gained so much, under braking, yet in the M3 people are gaining on me massively as I am braking 100 or more yards too early, still it can be sorted.

No problem taking you round m8, glad you enjoyed it.

 

[Gibbo]

Motul RBF600 is in, brakes much better but not perfect as rear bleed nipple was damaged, so mate is gonna re-bleed them. Needs a new rear wheel bearing as well so shall get that ordered along with new bleed nipples.

 

[Gibbo]

1:23 so a evo would still be quicker around the track ?

funny as i mentioned that ages ago and you said it wouldn't



some evos do 1:19 round there


car is looking good though.

Some M3's do 1:18 round there
I've owned an EVO and for a track car I wanted RWD.

A 1:23 with boiled fluid is not bad and I'm still running stock calipers, a BBK will probably be on the shopping list. On top of that I'm still getting used to the car as it still clearly had a lot more cornering speed in it as at no point was the car loosing traction or at the limits of grip.

 

[Gibbo]

what does your car weigh now ?

also that 1:19 isnt the fastest evo time i seen just a decent car some times ive seen are as low as 1:16 seen scoobies at that time as well. they were obviously silly over the top tuned time attack cars .

Should be in the region of 1320-1330kg.

You've seen these times you keep quoting but never proven them, I've posted video's of M3's doing 1:18's and managed a 1:23 myself with boiled fluid.

My 911 has being on track with EVO 8 FQ-400 and EVO 10 FQ-360 and at the time the 911 was doing around 1:24-1:26 and I was passing both these EVO's, both mates of mine as well, one who is a professional race driver and his best time in his 10 was around 1:25ish on full slicks, my 911 was on road tyres.....

I saw an M3 once do 1:06, oh no I have not actually.

Saturday what impressed me most was brand new Clio cup cars, a pair of them were there with a race team, and they absolutely destroyed everything, including the radicals and caterhams. Their cornering speed was mind boggling, they did not seem to need to use the brakes and even straight line power was impressive, so guessing the engines were tweaked from the stock 220BHP. Either way incredibly impressive bit of kit, completely stripped, slicks, sequential box, think someone commented on them doing around 1:15's.

I know the M3 has a lot more in it, I am not just not willing to take risk of throwing it at the scenery, even now with it all done I was only hovering around 105-110mph down through craners, I think in the morning I clocked 115mph briefly before the brakes completely boiled. I know the car with this setup could and can get down through their at approx. 120-125mph, but I do not feel comfortable pushing it that fast due to lack of my own talent and not willing to take risk. A lot of my lines were off as well simply as I was struggling to slow the car down, I was useless under braking and everyone knows on a race track good brakes are like having an additional 100BHP.

P.S. When I joked about an M3 doing 1:06, here is one which pretty much does exactly that:-
http://www.simpsonmotorsport.co.uk/default.asp?id=80&pid=70&name=BMW M3 CSL-GT Race Car

Its possible to make any car fast if you go to extremes.

 

[Gibbo]

no.

look at donnington times for evos and scoobies some do it well under gibbos time. not time attack cars some of them do 1:15-1:16 i mentioned them as he tried to make out that the m3 would do it quicker but it is unfair to compare those times.

he has owned a evo so he knows what it would do. his car still needs to shed a little weight yet and with a bit more tweaking hell be close. then its down to practice and how far hes going to push the car.

Where are these normal EVO's and Scoobs doing 1:15's then, can we have some links to video's of this?

Yes I have owned an EVO 10, my friend a professional race driver also owned the same EVO 10, put it on slicks and managed a 1:25.....

My other friend has an EVO 8 FQ-400 on sticky rubber, he has done Donnington many times and in both dry and wet conditions my 911 was faster, which at the time was lapping around 1:24-1:26, my M3 is matching my best 911 times with absolute shagged brakes, a good 2-3s to find there under braking.

I've posted video's of road going M3's and CSL's doing circa 1:18's.

You mentioned time attack cars so I posted that race M3 which is doing sub 1:10's.

My EVO on a dry Donnington would not see which way the M3 went, even with the brake fluid boiled, so yes I know what they can do. Change the conditions to wet and then yes both the 911 and EVO would absolutely devastate the M3, they are poor in wet conditions, particular my one which does not have 50/50 weight distribution, yet......

So one of my friends a professional race driver was circa 1:25 in an EVO 10 on slicks and my other mate in an EVO 8 FQ-400 on semi-slicks was around 1:26ish.

So please do post some videos of these 1:16 Scoobs and EVO's, as sounds to me like they are far from standard and will be seriously track prepped with a hell of a lot of money spent on them and running big power.

 

[Gibbo]

no.

look at donnington times for evos and scoobies some do it well under gibbos time. not time attack cars some of them do 1:15-1:16 i mentioned them as he tried to make out that the m3 would do it quicker but it is unfair to compare those times.

he has owned a evo so he knows what it would do. his car still needs to shed a little weight yet and with a bit more tweaking hell be close. then its down to practice and how far hes going to push the car.

Infact you talking absolute BS.

Seriously you are dillusional, here is a time attack 850BHP professional driven Subaru in qualifying:-

That's their fastest lap and its clocked at 1:15-1:16 from an 850BHP professionally driven time attack car during qualifying.

You are completely wrong, a STD or midly tuned EVO or Scoob certainly cannot do 1:16, more like 1:25 and slower as I've already proven to you.

Stop smoking your pipe, come back from button moon, back to earth, back to reality.


P.S. A quick search on Lancer Register brings up that a quick time for an EVO around Donnington is around 1:22 for something running big power, stripped out and on semi slick or full slicks, as in 500-600BHP region, with most cars being around 1:25ish similar to what my mates achieved in their EVO's on semi/full slick with 350-400BHP EVO's. An EVO/Scoob needs huge power to get round Donnington in sub 1:20, full slicks and a huge amount of money. The M3 boys are doing it on stock power, semi slicks and stripping them down to 1350kg region. Those who go further or go supercharged are going sub 1:15, but that is serious money, just like tuning an EVO to 500+ is!

Even more embarrassing the new Clio Cup with just 220BHP is managing 1:17 and the ones there on Saturday had some extra power it would seem too, they were around 1:15's.

 

[Gibbo]

where is there a 1:15 in that list?

So hugely modified, no expense spared, time attack cars with huge power, stripped out and on slicks.

Not a single one manages 1:15, yet you think road going mildly tuned EVO's a and Scoobs can do 1:15, hahahahahahahaha, whatever. 1:25ish as I've being saying all along.

Like I said, modified road going EVO/Scoobs with 400ish horsepower are around 1:25, slower even than my M3 with boiled fluid.


I had an EVO X tuned to 415BHP, it was probably one of the best road handling cars I have ever owned, it was amazing. But on a track well an M3 or 911 all day long, or even a sorted hot FWD hatch.

 

[Gibbo]

go over evo forums some guy did 1:19 400bhp fq 360. that's first one picked out. so nothing in it between evo and m3 or decent scooby if driven well.

those time attack times arnt really fair ill give you that .

anyway look forward to seeing your car progress and seeing the time shaven.

Got a link? Back up what your saying...

Lancer forums there is a guy called Blade who has managed 1:22 and is running big power and heavily modified.

Point is you've being proven wrong, you said 1:15's were possible, now your saying 1:19's, which is it?

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

I am a member of Lancer register, check this thread out:-
http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=62580&highlight=donnington

Guy called Gaz has a fully track prepared EVO running 558BHP on slicks, stripped, caged, the whole lot, he is yet to achieve a sub 1:20, though firmly believes it can probably do a 1:17 on a perfect lap pushed to the maximum with driver getting everything right. Which I agree with completely, but he like me probably does not want to throw it at the scenery and is enjoying his car, not going for the fastest lap time.

The same guys in the same thread with M3 CSL's were hitting 1:18's, which the EVO's guys are envious off because they can't get there with even 200+ more horsepower. Al Clarke has also done a 1:18 in his M3 which is very similar to mine but about 100kg heavier.

The stock EVO's were struggling to put in sub 1:30's, see the thread for youself, no fanboy's their just owners who love their cars sharing times. An EVO takes huge power to get round Donnington fast even when its caged up, on slicks and stripped out. Even the time attack cars cannot manage sub 1:15, whereas race prepped M3's are doing sub 1:10's and are still under 400BHP.

A M3 can't rally, its crap and poor in the wet, but on a dry race track the M3 is the better package, full stop. On a bumpy country UK dry road, the EVO is so much easier to drive fast and in most cases would spank an M3, unless the M3 has someone with huge talent behind the wheel. EVO/Scoobs are superb road/rally cars, but they are not circuit cars, the M3 owns them here.

 

[Gibbo]

so not 1:15 at all then?



he can't.

he is talking the same rubbish he does in the PC games section.

its because a guy with a stock 360 has not done a 1:19, not unless it was stripped to the bone, on slicks and he was a race driver, even then it might be a struggle, consider my own mate could only manage a 1:25

Considering there are guys with stripped EVO's running 500+ horsepower on slicks struggling to break the 1:20's which I have provided proof off.