Katie Hopkins Sacked

Hmm. I mean, from a legal standpoint, this is - of course - correct, but most criticism of the behaviour of companies is not from a legal standpoint it is from a moral or ethical one. It's entirely fair to discuss whether Twitter has behaved in a legitimate manner from an ethical point of view rather than from a legal one.

I suppose so. There's still no obligation to be lenient though, it's still whatever they perceive to be right for their business, mostly in terms of protecting the revenue they get from advertisers.

I will just reverberate the position that we live in a society where one can compete against a product with a 'better' one. The idea that Twitter is some unstoppable monopoly is such a defeatist tone to me.
 
The latest infraction and the ban were simultaneous. That kind of makes it related a bit.

Like 3 strikes and your out which I believe Twitter do have.

That's how the last straw works. You reach a point where enough is enough.

The ban would be related to something she posted but not necessarily the worst thing she'd ever posted.
 
Well look them up. She is a vile woman. If I owned a website, I wouldn't provide her with any free services either.

I think we all largely agree on here that not hearing her controversial opinions are welcome, and yes, I'm sure if you had your own platform you'd align it with your own views etc.

But this is twitter, a more public platform (so it's touted) that is a money making machine, I don't actually like how much weight it carries, and I do find an element of this quite distasteful, having twitter decide on what they find personally 'hateful' might sound perfect to bin off KH, but leaving many other savoury characters and groups on there (as people are pointing out) makes me raise an eyebrow.

It's not far from the extreme leftist viewpoint of anyone that doesn't agree with them is immediately 'hateful' and must be cancelled..
 
That's a very fair and valid point. The problem comes when the proponents are not interested in having a discussion nor are they willing to be open-minded and willing to be persuaded to change their point of view, as so many clearly are.

At that point, they're basically just a one person PR machine, peddling their bile and hate trawling for an audience. Nobody wants to facilitate that.

You've just described crazy.
 
So what did she actually post that triggered them to take action?

A pattern of behaviour seems odd as she must have already been punished for offending posts before and they chose not to ban her. So something must have triggered twitter to react now.

I'm not a fan of Hopkins (similar to my opinion of TR) as she is an agitator. But what I don't like is while she is punished, others break the rules and aren't punished.
 
For such a comparison, one might provide an example of someone who has broken the rules and not been punished. I certainly don't care enough to go find it and honestly, it wouldn't be a surprise though, if there's a culture of hypocrisy running through whatever team deals with the community, it can join every other company that exists, ever.

If it's an issue of subtlety, then maybe she should have been less blunt.
 
Last edited:
Hmm. I mean, from a legal standpoint, this is - of course - correct, but most criticism of the behaviour of companies is not from a legal standpoint it is from a moral or ethical one. It's entirely fair to discuss whether Twitter has behaved in a legitimate manner from an ethical point of view rather than from a legal one.

What is deemed ethical in this case though? I would say it is far more ethical to decide to cut ties with a person who is objectively a horrible piece of work.

I think we all largely agree on here that not hearing her controversial opinions are welcome, and yes, I'm sure if you had your own platform you'd align it with your own views etc.

But this is twitter, a more public platform (so it's touted) that is a money making machine, I don't actually like how much weight it carries, and I do find an element of this quite distasteful, having twitter decide on what they find personally 'hateful' might sound perfect to bin off KH, but leaving many other savoury characters and groups on there (as people are pointing out) makes me raise an eyebrow.

It's not far from the extreme leftist viewpoint of anyone that doesn't agree with them is immediately 'hateful' and must be cancelled..

But whats the alternative?

Do we say that a private company has to provide a free service to anyone regardless of what that person says or does on their servers, and no matter how detrimental it is to their revenue or image?

As long as a business is not discriminating based on attributes a person cannot change or was born with (gender, race, sexual orientation etc) then I dont see the problem. Katie can stop being a infantile hate mongerer if she wants.

If Katie's views are so popular or valuable then she can find another business that will let her post what she wants, or she can start one up herself.
 
As an expert in being banned from a privately owned platform for posting the straw that broke the camel's back, I find it hard to criticise what Twitter has done.
 
I can't say i agree with this. It brings me back to this analogy about the free exchange of ideas:

IMAGE

Obviously in this case, Katie Hopkins is the one serving up the dog **** and Twitter don't want her serving it at their potluck....because it is dog ****.

I like the analogy so let me continue it further - If "you" (the person in the quote not you Jono8) ban the dog poop from "your" table, does the dog poop idea just go away? No, it just moves to other smaller tables and yet because "you" can't see it any more "you" feel happy that it's gone and think "you've" done something good and the dog poop on table idea must have gone away.

Only you haven't, because now the dog poop on a table idea is still spreading across more tables only now there is no-one to tell people about how bad it is and try to change people minds on why dog poop is bad so the tables get bigger and the dog poop idea gets exposed to more people and, whats worse, is that while the "dog poop on tables" movement continues to grow "you" have no idea that it's happening because "it's not happening on my table" so "you" still think "you" did a good job and are praising "yourself" whilst being blind to the huge increase of dog poop on table believers.

I would suggest that is a more accurate and "full" story rather than the quoted image which, for me at least, stopped at "I banned it so it all must have gone away" which I find to be the response of an immature mind, a bit like sticking your fingers in your ears and believing that it you can't hear it then it doesn't exist, rather than facing the reality that these ideas need to be heard so that everyone can point out why its a bad idea using calm rational facts and humiliation as the number of the dog poop fans slowly dwindles. They'll never be fully gone, real life doesn't work that way, but you can keep the numbers really low and prevent new people thinking that way using those two tactics.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd written this elsewhere but think it maybe worthwhile repeating here -

This is basic human psychology - if your belief is "attacked" it gets stronger. If others see you being attacked over your beliefs, and they are sympathetic to you, their beliefs will get stronger too. However if you calmly and rationally talk to people you have a far better chance of changing that persons mind than if you "attack" their beliefs. It's not 100% guaranteed that even calm rational discussion will change everyone's beliefs, but it's a damn sight more effective than screaming in their face and banning them is.

For example, I love the work that Daryl Davis does. He's a black man who goes to KKK and Neo-Nazi meetings to talk to people, not attacking their beliefs but listening and calmly, rationally talking to them, and he's de-radicalised hundreds of Clan and Nazi members. Compare that to how many have been de-radicalised just because they've been banned from twitter, and where they now feel attacked by twitters "hatemobs" which hardened their beliefs. Worse still no-one can talk to them any more to try to de-radicalise them while those on Twitter feel "happy" because they got that racist off their platform, even though they've made the racist even harder to de-radicalise - how is that a "victory"?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I mentioned earlier, I think it's reasoning of an immature mind, where the "hear no evil, see no evil" path of "If I can't see it then it's not happening and if it's not happening then I'm happy" eventually leads to trouble, because it hasn't gone, it's only got worse and now it's harder to fight while the Twitter mob feel happy, clapping each other on their digital backs but blinded to reality.

But again that just my opinion. I know which I think changes more minds :)

(edit - so many spelling mistakes!)
 
Last edited:
I like the analogy so let me continue it further - If "you" (the person in the quote not you Jono8) ban the dog poop from "your" table, does the dog poop idea just go away? No, it just moves to other smaller tables and yet because "you" can't see it any more "you" feel happy that it's gone and think "you've" done something good and the dog poop on table idea must have gone away.

Only you haven't, because now the dog poop on a table idea is still spreading across more tables only now there is no-one to tell people about how bad it is and try to change people minds on why dog poop is bad so the tables get bigger and the dog poop idea gets exposed to more people and, whats worse, is that while the "dog poop on tables" movement continues to grow "you" have no idea that it's happening because "it's not happening on my table" so "you" still think "you" did a good job and are praising "yourself" whilst being blind to the huge increase of dog poop on table believers.

I would suggest that is a more accurate and "full" story rather than the quoted image which, for me at least, stopped at "I banned it so it all must have gone away" which I find to be the response of an immature mind, a bit like sticking your fingers in your ears and believing that it you can't hear it then it doesn't exist, rather than facing the reality that these ideas need to be heard so that everyone can point out why its a bad idea using calm rational facts and humiliation as the number of the dog poop fans slowly dwindles. They'll never be fully gone, real life doesn't work that way, but you can keep the numbers really low and prevent new people thinking that way using those two tactics.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is basic human psychology - if your belief is "attacked" it gets stronger. If others see you being attacked over your beliefs, and they are sympathetic to you, their beliefs will get stronger too. However if you calmly and rationally talk to people you have a far better chance of changing that persons mind than if you "attack" their beliefs. It's not 100% guaranteed that even calm rational discussion will change everyone's beliefs, but it's a damn sight more effective than screaming in their face and banning them is.

For example, I love the work that Daryl Davis does. He's a black man who goes to KKK and Neo-Nazi meetings to talk to people, not attacking their beliefs but listening and calmly, rationally talking to them, and he's de-radicalised hundreds of Clan and Nazi members. Compare that to how many have been de-radicalised just because they've been banned from twitter, and where they now feel attacked by twitters "hatemobs" which hardened their beliefs? Worse still no-one can talk to them any more to try to de-radicalise them whilst those on Twitter feel "happy" because they got that racist off their platform even though they've made the racist even harder to de-radicalise - how is that a "victory"?

As I mentioned earlier, I think it's reasoning of an immature mind, where the "hear no evil, see no evil" path of "If I can't see it then it's not happening and if it's not happening then I'm happy" eventually leads to trouble, because it hasn't gone, it's only got worse and now it's harder to fight while they Twitter mob feel happy, clapping each other on their digital backs but blinded to reality.

But again that just my opinion. I know which I think changes more minds :)

But this is assuming it is possible to convince ALL those who bring dog **** to the table , to not bring dog **** to the table. If this was the first, second or even third time Katie brought dog **** , it is prudent, as you say to perhaps educate her as to why she is wrong and why she should not bring it.

Katie has had her chance. She has been schooled on why no one wants her dog **** at the potluck in a million different ways. It has been repeatedly explained to her why no one wants the dog **** there as well, with objective facts.

She still however insists on bringing the dog ****. This was the 158th time she was invited , but she still brought dog ****. It's therefore time to exclude her from the potluck.
 
A pattern of behaviour seems odd

No, not odd, but the basis of what the ban was for

as she must have already been punished for offending posts before

Yes she was

and they chose not to ban her.

No, they suspended her on previous occasions

So something must have triggered twitter to react now.

Yes, the straw. The fact that her pattern of behaviour of breaking their T&Cs hadn't changed after receiving previous suspensions is what led to a ban this time. So, there is nothing odd at all in escalating the punishment on repeat offenders, in fact that's quite the norm.
 
What is deemed ethical in this case though? I would say it is far more ethical to decide to cut ties with a person who is objectively a horrible piece of work.
But whats the alternative?

Do we say that a private company has to provide a free service to anyone regardless of what that person says or does on their servers, and no matter how detrimental it is to their revenue or image?

As long as a business is not discriminating based on attributes a person cannot change or was born with (gender, race, sexual orientation etc) then I dont see the problem. Katie can stop being a infantile hate mongerer if she wants.

If Katie's views are so popular or valuable then she can find another business that will let her post what she wants, or she can start one up herself.

The only thing we essentially disagree on is that twitter/facebook have got to the size they aren't just governed by the simple rule of being a private company and they can just do what they like. Effectively they are huge media platforms and are starting to editorialise things, hence EU/US showing them so much attention.

I happen to prefer the US version, i.e. continue to let them be this neutral platform that reaches millions of people, however they would be forced to allow people like KH to participate (for the fairness of letting people have all views) as long as she doesn't break any laws regarding racism, hate crimes etc. The EU want to go the other way and have them heavily editorialise (which at least would also get rid of a lot more unsavoury people and groups)..
 
Last edited:
Yes, the straw. The fact that her pattern of behaviour of breaking their T&Cs hadn't changed after receiving previous suspensions is what led to a ban this time. So, there is nothing odd at all in escalating the punishment on repeat offenders, in fact that's quite the norm.

If you broke the rules of this forum on the 1st of January, 1st of February, and 1st of March, which you received a suspension for each rule break. Then no post since then. Then on June 22nd you suddenly get banned, that is, in my opinion, abnormal... unless you did something else.

Btw, I'm not saying things didn't happen like you said. It wouldn't surprise me if they did just ban her "cos they can". But that is were the unfairness comes from, selective enforcing of the rules.
 
If you broke the rules of this forum on the 1st of January, 1st of February, and 1st of March, which you received a suspension for each rule break. Then no post since then. Then on June 22nd you suddenly get banned, that is, in my opinion, abnormal... unless you did something else.

Btw, I'm not saying things didn't happen like you said. It wouldn't surprise me if they did just ban her "cos they can". But that is were the unfairness comes from, selective enforcing of the rules.

She criticised Marcus Rashford's campaign, he's black at a time when the BLM campaign is super important, and had a popular campaign that was backed by the media and public. She was banned because a lot of people probably reported her Tweets about it. It's just cancel/outrage culture in action.
 
If you broke the rules of this forum on the 1st of January, 1st of February, and 1st of March, which you received a suspension for each rule break. Then no post since then. Then on June 22nd you suddenly get banned, that is, in my opinion, abnormal... unless you did something else.

That would be a bit odd yes. Not sure how that's relevant to this case as that's not what happened. She was still frequently using twitter.

Btw, I'm not saying things didn't happen like you said. It wouldn't surprise me if they did just ban her "cos they can". But that is were the unfairness comes from, selective enforcing of the rules.

Thing is, since that version of events "you wouldn't be surprised at" didn't actually happen, then there was no unfairness for that reason.
 
She criticised Marcus Rashford's campaign, he's black at a time when the BLM campaign is super important, and had a popular campaign that was backed by the media and public. She was banned because a lot of people probably reported her Tweets about it. It's just cancel/outrage culture in action.

The only people I see outraged are people defending Hopkins/condemning Twitter.
 
Back
Top Bottom