Kyle Rittenhouse - teen who shot three people in Kenosha

Is that what I'm arguing? I have not provided any numbers so do not know if 9 in 10 years, as you have stated, is correct but I'm finding that low number hard to believe when they are responsible for 1000 reported deaths per year.


Going on your other statistic of 15,000 homicides by shooting per year - wow, yeh ok that is a high figure and even if you ignorantly assume 14,000 of those to be gang related you'd still need to have at least 501 innocents killed by police for that 1000pa figure.


Man, 15,000 a year?!
 
This situation has nothing to do with gun control, I don't know why this topic gets dragged into every thread. It is down to mayors allowing violent riots to continue in the city, If it had not been a shooting it would have been a stabbing.
People die from guns, they wouldn't have died from guns if there were no guns, yes they may have been stabbed, they may also have been stung by a bee it doesn't change the fact that they wouldn't have been shot if guns were controlled so obviously the conversation migrates to this, as it should.

I think you're ignoring how disconnected you are and how easy it is to point and shoot when comparing to close proximity violence and use of a small blade.



...15,000 per year!!?
 
People die from guns, they wouldn't have died from guns if there were no guns, yes they may have been stabbed, they may also have been stung by a bee it doesn't change the fact that they wouldn't have been shot if guns were controlled so obviously the conversation migrates to this, as it should.

I think you're ignoring how disconnected you are and how easy it is to point and shoot when comparing to close proximity violence and use of a small blade.



...15,000 per year!!?

There are 328 million people in the US though. And if you factor in how diversity impacts the number, the number should really be about 60% of that..
 
How does "diversity" relate in this context?

I could be wrong as I'm trying to guess intent, but it looks like they might be trying to point out the disparity between the small number of black people in the US (approx 13% of the total population) vs the amount of violent crime that is attributed to them, where the FBI stats show that around 13% of the population causes around 35% or more of the violent crime that's reported and a far higher percentage for murders (approx 50%).

Hence I think the poster is pointing out (and I could be wrong) that if the 13% black population only caused 13% of the violent crimes, just like every other ethnical group percentage roughly matches their violent crime percentages, then the overall numbers would drop dramatically to approximately 60% of its current value.

2018 The FBI said (Bold text by me) - https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/topic-pages/tables/table-43
  • White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race and accounted for 58.7 percent of those arrests. (38% of violent crime crime committed by 13% of the population)
  • Of adults arrested for murder, 53.0 percent were Black or African American, 44.4 percent were White, and 2.6 percent were of other races. (53% of the Murders committed by 13% of the population)
  • White juveniles comprised 48.8 percent of all juveniles arrested for violent crimes, and Black or African American juveniles accounted for 48.4 percent of juveniles arrested for violent crimes.White juveniles comprised 55.0 percent of all juveniles arrested for property crimes. (48% of violent crimes by under 18's committed by <13% of the population)
2017 the FBI had almost identical results (Bold text by me) - https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43
  • White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race and accounted for 58.5 percent of those arrests. (38% of violent crime crime committed by 13% of the population)
  • Of adults arrested for murder, 52.5 percent were Black or African American, 44.8 percent were White, and 2.8 percent were of other races. (52% of the Murders committed by 13% of the population)
  • Black or African American juveniles comprised 50.9 percent of all juveniles arrested for violent crimes. White juveniles accounted for 56.2 percent of all juveniles arrested for property crimes. (50% of violent crimes by under 18's committed by <13% of the population)
and this is continually repeated back through the years as far as 1995 when the FBI's stats became widely available.
 
I get you, thanks for the breakdown. Are detailed figures available to narrow down homicides by shooting per demographic? And does the figure reflect more accurately against the african american demographic or is it more harmonious to socioeconomic statistics?
 
Just remember when discussing gun crime, guns don't kill people, rappers do.

Fix that problem and for such a huge country the number of deaths by shootings decreases to a rate that you might consider more reasonable for a country with legalised gun ownership.
 
You also have to factor in how many of the deaths per year are committed by illegal guns approx. 40%-60%. In addition to how many violent crimes are stopped by the deterrent of the potential victim having a firearm, estimated 400k to 3 million. Gun ownership in the US is an exceptionally polarising debate.
 
Are detailed figures available to narrow down homicides by shooting per demographic? And does the figure reflect more accurately against the african american demographic or is it more harmonious to socioeconomic statistics?

There is no direct "Homicide by shooting further broken down in ethnicities" table. The best information we have (without a much deeper dive that I'm not willing to trawl through TBH) can be taken from the info provided below -

Murder by weapon type - https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....ges/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls - which the FBI breaks down into -

FBI said:
  • More than 72 percent (72.7) of the homicides for which the FBI received weapons data in 2018 involved the use of firearms. Handguns comprised 64.3 percent of the firearms used in murder and non-negligent manslaughter incidents in 2018.

and then two tables which break down the ethnicity, sex and age of the murderers -

Overall murderer ethnicity vs victim ethnicity in single victim/offender case (not multiple victims per incident) - https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....ges/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

Age/Sex/Ethnicity a more detailed look (all victims) - https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....ges/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

which the FBI broke down into -

FBI said:
  • Of 16355 total murders in 2018, 6318 were carried out by a Black offender, 4884 by a White Offender and in 4821 the ethnicity was unknown.
  • When the race of the offender was known, 54.9 percent were Black or African American, 42.4 percent were White, and 2.7 percent were of other races.
  • When the race of the victim was known, 53.3 percent were Black or African American, 43.8 percent were White, and 2.8 percent were of other races
  • Of the offenders for whom gender was known, 87.7 percent were male.
  • Of the victims for whom gender was known, 77.3 percent were male.
  • In single victim murders, of 3315 White victims, 514 were killed by a Black offender and 2677 by a White offender.
  • In single victim murders, of 2925 Black victims, 234 were killed by a White offender and 2600 by a Black offender.

So Males are most likely to be both the victim and offender, firearms were the weapons used in the greatest amount and both the victim and offender are most likely to be from the same ethnicity. However, the number of murders carried out by Black offenders is almost the same as the number carried out by White offenders, despite the huge numerical superiority of White people in the US compared to the number of Black people. I would also like a better demographic breakdown of the numbers to see the difference in murder rates based on financial status of the victim/offender (poor killing poor, rich kill rich etc) but thats not provided.

Edit - changed the start of the 3rd bullet point in the 2nd quote so it matches the point above for clarity.
 
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Thank you, above and beyond as always.

It's a shame the studies were done by, shall we say, the unenlightened as I hope the country eventually gets a grip of their gun problem once and for all. So many deaths appear so unnecessary to the outsider. I mean 15,000!?
 
I have read from supposed witnesses, that the victim and shooter were both blue lives matter white guys.

Just to add that this is not the case, the guy who the police are now after was recently arrested for illegally carrying a gun while 'protesting' and released due to the policy of the mayor of Portland to not arrest anyone, he imo now has blood on his hands and should resign if he has any decency (he wont).

Also, the photos of the guy being restrained by police was apparently the dead mans partner, footage shows 'protesters' making homophobic insults before and after the shooting.
 
It's not even about "Black Lives" anymore, that was just the original spark that continues to give the riots some semblance of credibility even though BLM itself is a self confessed Communist group. Most of it now is anarchist/communist groups like Antifa (and BLM) and those with severe Trump Derangement Syndrome who think they're saving the world from Nazi's whilst behaving like them.

This is largely what the riots about:

You've got people who've spent the best part of 4-5 years living in a bubble of Trump being called an evil tyrant and how they need to overthrow him to prevent a far right menace that up until this day is largely imaginary, these people don't even listen to other points of view because they find anything that doesn't align with their own beliefs as offensive and far right (which I assume is why they think there's a huge far right threat in the first place).

They spent 3 years hearing how Trump colluded with Russia which proved to be false, there's plenty of corporate media footage of people like Adam Schiff claiming to have seen direct evidence of collusion if you search for it but funnily they never showed any of it to Mueller during his multi-million pound 2 year long investigation.

The impeachment that was nothing other than a bipartisan fraud, that couldn't wait for any actual evidence due to Trump's imminent threat to the constitution but then once passed Pelosi sat on it for a month or two because it was nothing but a media circus.

Something like 95%+ of corporate media coverage about Trump has been negative whilst at the same time independent media where Trump has support is being censored by umm corporations.

Trump had to take a mental health test because they spent weeks making out he was senile and brought to you by the party who are now running Biden who can barely string a coherent sentence together and neither the Democrats or corporate media care one bit.

Strzok and Page of the FBI texting to each other that they'll stop Trump from winning and have an "insurance policy" in case he does.

General Mike Flynn found to be set up by the FBI and later cleared.

FISA warrants to spy on the Trump campaign obtained illegally.

Have I missed anything? I think in a few decades time the last 4-5 years will prove to be an example of a population can be radicalised to the point of violence and uprising based on mostly propaganda.

Oh and things are going to get a lot worse later this year when Biden loses and the Democrats demand for mail-in-voting gives them the excuse that Trump "stole the election" even though they'll spend months saying it's perfectly safe from voter fraud.
 
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Oh yeah and there are nearly 400,000,000 (yes 400 million) guns in America owned by civilians.

If 'only' 15,000 people are being shot and killed this tell me that it's not the guns because if it was just purely a gun thing we'd have hundreds of millions of shootings.. only 0.03% of guns will never be fired at a human over a ten year period.

But as for Goldy, he was such an enlightened and learnered chap apparently, years beforehand time and before it wasn't cool to call out who was using guns for murder...he knew and wasn't afraid to sell the story.
 
There’s a video of your friend, Kyle, beating up a girl. Whatever you have to say about gender equality, she doesn’t appear to be provoking him.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/ijy2q8/kyle_rittenhouse_and_his_friends_punching_a_girl/

Different to tell from the video but piecing together the comments and the commentary some girl had hit his sister, then a car drives in front and we see an altercation where something happens and us obscured by a passing car and the Kyle hits her.
 
Is that what I'm arguing? I have not provided any numbers so do not know if 9 in 10 years, as you have stated, is correct but I'm finding that low number hard to believe when they are responsible for 1000 reported deaths per year.


Going on your other statistic of 15,000 homicides by shooting per year - wow, yeh ok that is a high figure and even if you ignorantly assume 14,000 of those to be gang related you'd still need to have at least 501 innocents killed by police for that 1000pa figure.


Man, 15,000 a year?!

You presented 9 people being shot dead by police in over 10 years as compelling evidence that more people are shot dead by police than are shot dead by people who aren't police and who aren't gang members. So that would mean less than 9, which is at most 8.

And yes, 15,000 homicides by shooting per year. Roughly. Some years more, some years less. And that is just homicides. I checked. It doesn't include suicides or accidental deaths. Total deaths by shooting in the USA are more like 35,000 per year. Suicide by gun is more common than homicide by gun. Accidental deaths by gun are relatively rare.

It was you who assumed almost all of them are gang related. That was the whole point of your argument. Are you calling yourself ignorant? You're definitely wrong because a lot of homicides in the USA (and elsewhere aren't gang related).


How do you arrive at the claim of "at least 501 innocents killed by the police" per year? Are you just counting everyone who you consider to be "black" as automatically innocent regardless of circumstances? That would be very fashionably racist of you.
 
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