Permabanned
- Joined
- 23 Apr 2014
- Posts
- 23,552
- Location
- Hertfordshire
at people still trying to make out its some kind of winKyle Rittenhouse - teen who shot three people in Kenosha
- Thread starter dowie
- Start date
at people still trying to make out its some kind of win
Regardless of how it started, if it gets adopted by enough actual white supremacists then at some point it ceases to be an innocuous meme.
As someone stated previously, context is key.
Associate
- Joined
- 22 Sep 2007
- Posts
- 2,183
- Location
- Abingdon
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about and this example just reinforces my view that people are actively making things up now to get upset about.
Associate
- Joined
- 22 Sep 2007
- Posts
- 2,183
- Location
- Abingdon
Can you describe every context where using the OK sign makes you a white supremacist?
You don't get it.
The supremacists do it in pictures to wind people up.
And it has been working for years......but it looks like most libs never got the memo.
It sort of is when you look at it. The defamation lawsuits are going to lead to this guy becoming a rich white male with some power and a voice, the exact thing a lot of those most opposed to the verdict hate.
I couldn't care less, all it really exposes is the madness of the American systems.
"One of the more successful of these recent 4chan hoaxes, also originating in February 2017, was the concept that white supremacists were drinking milk to show “the superiority of the white race” and the “purity of white milk.” One hoaxer trying to convince the Anti-Defamation League “explained” that “they are chugging milk in front of people of color, quoting racist books and phrases and supposed statistics about people of color being lactose intolerant.” A number of media websites bought into the milk hoax."
If you're a white supremacist and you use the OK sign as a dog whistle to other white supremacists? Seems pretty obvious to me.
Exactly!
Permabanned
- Joined
- 28 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 10,695
- Location
- Shropshire
It's very easy to start a rumour that becomes set in stone, as I discovered some years ago.
I used to go to a night club in Manchester and there was a scruffy Yorkshire bloke that was often in, sat on his own, nursing a pint. I got chatting to him one night and he was very interesting and well educated, but shy and not very forthcoming. He was writing a book on the history of the Yorkshire textile mills and had recently divorced and was a bit lonely. One woman in the club was always saying how they shouldn't let him in, he was too scruffy and a weirdo, and why did I bother with him?
I decided to see how she would react to me telling her that his father was the owner of a huge textile mill and had died a few years ago. He had always told him never to tell people about any wealth you have, banks and business men will try and rob you of it, and women will want to marry you just for your brass. As such he never dressed well and never talked about the huge rent the units in the mill brought in weekly. I could almost see the £££ signs rolling behind her eyes. She sashayed off for a huddled conversation with her fellow bints.
Within a month this bloke was ecstatic as good looking but daft women suddenly showed attention and he could almost do a "Trump" on anything he fancied. I never had the heart to tell him why but I am sure he had a great time whilst it lasted. I think his writing got put on hold for a while
So I can easily see how a group already in the media spotlight with a "voice" could start things rolling like the OK sign or drinking milk!
I had a friend who told all the women he played on the Manchester United youth team and was in line to join the main squad. He was patently unfit, penniless and idle, but always managed to find some trendy clothing and talked the talk. Five minutes research would show him to be the Walter Mitty he was, but the girls were too thick, and too into (fool's) gold digging.
I used to go to a night club in Manchester and there was a scruffy Yorkshire bloke that was often in, sat on his own, nursing a pint. I got chatting to him one night and he was very interesting and well educated, but shy and not very forthcoming. He was writing a book on the history of the Yorkshire textile mills and had recently divorced and was a bit lonely. One woman in the club was always saying how they shouldn't let him in, he was too scruffy and a weirdo, and why did I bother with him?
I decided to see how she would react to me telling her that his father was the owner of a huge textile mill and had died a few years ago. He had always told him never to tell people about any wealth you have, banks and business men will try and rob you of it, and women will want to marry you just for your brass. As such he never dressed well and never talked about the huge rent the units in the mill brought in weekly. I could almost see the £££ signs rolling behind her eyes. She sashayed off for a huddled conversation with her fellow bints.
Within a month this bloke was ecstatic as good looking but daft women suddenly showed attention and he could almost do a "Trump" on anything he fancied. I never had the heart to tell him why but I am sure he had a great time whilst it lasted. I think his writing got put on hold for a while
So I can easily see how a group already in the media spotlight with a "voice" could start things rolling like the OK sign or drinking milk!
I had a friend who told all the women he played on the Manchester United youth team and was in line to join the main squad. He was patently unfit, penniless and idle, but always managed to find some trendy clothing and talked the talk. Five minutes research would show him to be the Walter Mitty he was, but the girls were too thick, and too into (fool's) gold digging.
dowie you're boring me now. I've explained twice why those hand gestures aren't the same and you accuse me of not reading posts
Just because you don't want to acknowledge the far right and alt right have highjacked this hand sign doesn't mean I'm getting dragged into a dowie hole with you.
What are you talking about?
Again, read the posts.
To be clear - no, I haven't denied that white supremacists have used it (quite the opposite), that is not my argument. I'm not even sure what you mean by "I've explained twice why those hand gestures aren't the same". how do you differentiate between a normal OK symbol used by a regular person and an OK symbol which can be used to confirm someone is a white supremacist?
You're probably getting frustrated because it is such a weak argument, that might explain why you've pivoted to arguing some point that wasn't made.
i Just saw 2+ Pages of talk about OK symbols and white supremacist and thought some discovery had been made. The media/social media are very much screaming white supremacist (even the POTUS)..Literally nobody is screaming anything.
Not a good look and difficult to put in to context, but definitely enough to warrant some digging.. The fact some proud boy people may have come up to him in a bar and wanted a photo is understandable, they'd probably idolise him, however, making the OK sign in that context is definitely suspect.. Possibly naive, but either way I'd say people are justified in bringing it up.
It could get adopted by all of them tbh... every KKK, Stormfront or whatever member, it would still be <1% of the actual uses of the symbol as it is so ubiquitous already. That it is so commonly used already is part of the prank's success for very online people.
For everyone else, it's more of a "nothing burger" which is perhaps why the media stories often reported it in vague language "a white supremacist symbol" instead of reporting that he'd made the OK sign in a photograph which would then require some explanation lest it leave plenty of people asking "so what?".
It's quite plausible he had no idea, he's just had some guys come up to him in the bar and ask for a photo and he's made an OK sign because they have. They don't seem to have anything on to indicate they are members of that group so I'm not sure he necessarily knew who they were beyond that they were supporters of his who had come up for a photo and to shake his hand etc..
As I said he didn't 'act' like he was there to cause trouble (other than being there, but considering the 'quality' of rioters he encountered, he has probably more reason to be there than they did), but it's not a good look none the less IMO.
This does not reflect in anyway on the verdict, there was only one set of clear aggressors and that stands..
It does just remind me that the US and the gun culture is not something I support.
Yeah, it's not like the meaning of the sign is going to change in any significant way for the vast majority of people, just like the example of the number 88 given previously. But those who know, know. I don't see how that changes anything I've stated so far.
I don't think it is like the example of 14 and 88 given previously, the OK symbol is widespread, the use of those two numbers together doesn't seem to have any special meaning AFAIK? I had to google the 14 88 thing in the first place as I wasn't familiar with it - it's obscure and seems quite specific so there would seem to be more grounds for questions in that case.
OK symbol on the other hand would need much stronger context probably to the point where the context itself provides all the evidence you need anyway - the symbol itself being rather useless as an indication of anything.
14 and 88 each have significance to White Supremacists in their own right. Many of them will use 1488 or a variation of it, but you don't necessarily need 14 and 88 together to unlock the special Nazi meaning.
As such I think they're very similar:
- 14 and 88 are ubiquitous numbers with a range of conventional meanings (not least conveying the units they describe).
- The OK symbol is ubiquitous with a well-known conventional meaning.
- Most people (except White Supremacists and people who have learned about it) won't know about the hidden meaning behind 14 and 88.
- Most people (except White Supremacists, 4Chan users, and new people who have learned about it) won't know about the hidden meaning behind the OK symbol.
- The WS use of 14 and 88 is obscure and quite specific.
- The WS use of the OK symbol is obscure and quite specific.
- 14 and 88 still need a lot of context (probably to the point where the context itself provides all the evidence you need anyway [sic]) for the underlying meaning to become apparent.
- The OK Symbol needs a lot of context for the WS meaning to become apparent.
Yup, but the point is if you do have them then that's rather more specific, the post that introduced it to this thread mentioned both and it does seem (from a quick google) that using both is common.
Like a bingo fan with an 88 shirt or something is obvs a different meaning... but "14 words" or 14/88 etc.. nope:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
That is way more specific than an OK symbol, in most situations, someone making an OK symbol isn't sufficient to draw any conclusions about white supremacy beliefs. In fact by default, it's a complete nothing burger...
Put it into a context like say a UKIP politician posing for a photo or say a group of bikers and it's still not necessarily implying anything.
On the other hand if you, being aware of the relevance, saw some bikers with tattoos saying 14/88, 14 words etc. or even just "14" or a UKIP politician started making references to "14 words" that's waaay more specific than a mere OK gesture.
Even just a random person not in any specific context - you spot someone while on holiday at Disney land in the US with a tattoo with 14/88 on it or 14 words etc.. that is clearly more "sus" than seeing that same person sans tatto making an OK sign in a photo. Even just a tattoo with "14" in it is arguably more suspicious, though does have some more ambiguity to it (vs "14 words" or 14/88).
Last edited:
Most of the pics I've seen of White supremacists doing it are doing it in a subtle way, with their hands down. The KR photo looks like someone has asked for a photo and asked him to give an "OK" sign.
I bet he's been asked for hundreds, if not thousands of pics by random strangers.
It's really clutching at straws to link this incident with race, yet people are so quick to do it. Disgraceful behaviour.
I bet he's been asked for hundreds, if not thousands of pics by random strangers.
It's really clutching at straws to link this incident with race, yet people are so quick to do it. Disgraceful behaviour.