Kyle Rittenhouse - teen who shot three people in Kenosha

That page has been altered many times and I was a bit surprised at how bold it was when I first saw it. There are also BLM founders on video harping on about how they are trained Marxists :D

Yes, I’ve seen that video.

Ignoring the fact that ‘trained Marxist’ is very odd phrasing, she also says they are “super-versed on ideological theories”, so one would assume Marxist theory is just one area that they’ve studied.

It’s worth pointing out that it’s possible to separate Marxist theory from the outcomes of Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot — you can use parts of Marxist theory as a framework and not intend to overthrow Capitalism. It doesn’t, by default, make them Marxist-Communists.

Shouldn't be too far

The first cached version on The Way Back Machine is September 2019 — nothing obvious on there to support what mmj was saying. In fact, it’s very close to what’s on there now. I’ve just picked a few other random snapshots — nothing about overthrowing capitalism…
 
You guys mean this page?

Because I can’t see anything there about being “a Marxist group aiming to overthrow Capitalism, destroy the family unit and usher in a collectivist system that's hostile towards the individual…“

What have I missed?

Most of it is still there -

Family - We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure.

Collectivism - supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another.

To be fair it's extremely obvious that you have your own world view and that no amount of evidence, even things like direct quotes from a video of the BLM leaders etc will change that, as shown when you decided that video evidence of the BLM calling themselves "a trained Marxist" apparently doesn't make you Marxist, so why should people continue to waste their time looking up more evidence when you've just decided to deny reality with "Nah, they were talking about anything else"? I mean at least be honest and agree that what they said in the video is real and instead argue on a different matter, rather than "I'm ignoring those words they said, they must have meant something else because that makes my position easier to hold".
 

What an absolute state society is in.....

What with the epic amounts of gaslighting re the often quite clear words and actions of the multiple Marxists organisation currently trying to tear western society down......




And we can all see what happens to people who decline to 'get on message' with the vicious BLM activists and their sycophants


Absolutely shamless levels of disingenuity
 
Most of it is still there -

Family - We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure.

Collectivism - supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another.

If you’re going to quote it, at least quote the whole paragraph:

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

That’s not calling for the “destruction of the family unit” or a “collectivist system that’s hostile to the individual”.

It seems pretty clear to me that they are saying that — given single-motherhood is high in African-American communities — they want to try and remove the stigma of single-motherhood and support each other.
You know the phrase ‘it takes a village to raise a child’? That’s what they’re saying.

It’s quite a leap to go from the above paragraph to destroying the family unit and being hostile to individuality.

To be fair it's extremely obvious that you have your own world view and that no amount of evidence, even things like direct quotes from a video of the BLM leaders etc will change that, as shown when you decided that video evidence of the BLM calling themselves "a trained Marxist" apparently doesn't make you Marxist, so why should people continue to waste their time looking up more evidence when you've just decided to deny reality with "Nah, they were talking about anything else"? I mean at least be honest and agree that what they said in the video is real and instead argue on a different matter, rather than "I'm ignoring those words they said, they must have meant something else because that makes my position easier to hold".

And what, pray tell, is this obvious world view that I hold?

I’m not denying reality or evidence; I’m simply pointing out that knowing/understating Marxist Theory doesn’t, by default, make you a communist.

Equally, even if she was an actual Marxist, it doesn’t mean the whole BLM movement is set on the overthrow of Capitalism.

Frankly, it seems you’re projecting your own world view far more than me.

Edit:


That’s certainly more explicit than anything on the official US website, thank you.
 
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2 killed by Ritten, 2 killed by "lets drive into the crowd" people, a couple of independent murders, a cop killed by a "boogaloo boy" from memory, and one person killed (likely in self defence*) by someone at the protests.
[...]

*Given the guy had been pulling out bear spray with a pistol grip from a holster to shoot it at random people - one of those random people being armed with a gun.

That's a bit of a reach if you look at the CCTV etc... it appears to be something the shooter plans to do moments before in the parking garage, the person killed doesn't have any interaction with him prior.

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/20...urder-unlawful-use-of-a-firearm-unsealed.html

lhiz3BQ.png

It is a bit dubious how there are assertions about self defence in this incident where there is barely anything to support that claim whereas there is rather a lot to support a self defence claim re: the incident mentioned in the OP...

Quite a contrast tbh... in this Portland case the shooter was actively involved in violence over multiple days, was there for antisocial purposes, had already been arrested and charged re: a firearm recently (charges dropped, because Portland). and certainly didn't attempt to retreat from anyone, in fact it looks more like an ambush...

And did this Portland shooter acting in "self defence" hand himself over to the police? Nope... he fled, hid out in another state and when they went to arrest him he ended up getting shot!

Note from his sister is quite telling:
https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/20...s-fatal-shooting-by-police-in-washington.html

“That shocked me that it was the police, at first ... but then I thought about it,” Reinoehl’s sister said. “There was no way that the Michael I knew would have gone quietly,

Contrast with the Kenosha shooter - he's not been there over multiple days, nor is he there to try and destroy things he's there to clean up and to try and stop things from being destroyed (as misguided as that is re: some LARPing militia members playing at police, thanks in part to a failure of the local authorities to act)

He retreated first during each incident, actively trying to get away from the threat - at no point does the Portland shooter do this. And what are Kenosha's shooters' first actions afterwards? He walks straight up to the police and attempts to turn himself in, when that fails he goes home and turns himself in at his local police station... Quite a contrast to the Portland shooter not coming forwards and ending up dead when police/US marshals do make a move.
 
What exactly is stopping black people (or any other ethnicity) from currently supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially their children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable?

(notice the conspicuous lack of the word 'fathers'?)


Why does the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure need to be disrupted for the above? The US already has some of the highest rates of single parent families particularly re blacks ....


So why do BLM feel the nees to say they are going to disrupt this even more?

Thoose that want to live in communes are quite free to do so in places like the UK and US and have done so for decades.

Whats the evidence that black people would come together and collectively care for each other en masse in places like the US and UK? They have massively disproportionate rates of in group violent crime in both the UK and US

Where's the evidence that BLM havedone anything meaningful to actually support the above proposed societal arrangements?

I suspect no sensible answers will be forthcoming
 
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What exactly is stopping black people (or any other ethnicity) from currently supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially their children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable?

Why does the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure need to be disrupted for the above? The US already has some of the highest rates of single parent families particularly re blacks ....



So why do BLM feel the nees to say they are going to disrupt this even more?

Thoose that want to live in communes are quite free to do so in places like the UK and US and have done so for decades.

Whats the evidence that black people would come together and collectively care for each other en masse in places like the US and UK? They have massively disproportionate rates of in group violent crime in both the UK and US

Where's the evidence that BLM havedone anything meaningful to actually support the above proposed societal arrangements?

I suspect no sensible answers will be forthcoming

Who knows. Maybe a national, grass-roots movement focused on it will affect some real change?

I can’t say I’m optimistic but it’s possible.
 
Frankly, it seems you’re projecting your own world view far more than me.

When someone's own website, own video interviews and own words tell me "We believe in the following.......", I believe them. You apparently think differently. I have no problem with that at all, only when you dismiss BLM's stated facts and replace what they actually said with your own interpretation of what those facts mean and give them as fact.

So my world view is that when someone tells me that they "are a trained Marxist" I think that they are are a Marxist. Your world view seems to be that when someone tells you that they "are a trained Marxist" that they don't mean it really, it's just means they might have studied a bit, it's not real Marxism, not really, and even if they are Marxists it doesn't mean ALL of them believe it. My world view of BLM is believing their statements to be facts. Your world view of BLM seems to believe that their statements are not facts but soft opinions to be interpreted however you like and don't really mean anything anyway i.e.

Fact - "Trained Marxist" - Interpretation "well she could mean anything by saying that and even if she is it doesn't mean all of them are".
Fact - "We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure." - Interpretation "well they don't really mean that, they must mean something completely different to those words".
Fact - "supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another." - Interpretation "Well they don't really mean that, they must mean something completely different to those words".

You asked "pray tell, is this obvious world view that I hold?" and I'll take a good guess for you however no-one but you can truly know with 100% accuracy which kind of makes it pointless, however - I think that you don't like that the ideals that BLM "really" stands for, written in their own words, are radically different to what you "believed" BLM actually stood for in the beginning, and that difference between what BLM state as "fact" and what you think they stood for doesn't make any sense to you. That is why you're making up excuses as to why the words the BLM specifically use MUST mean something completely different to the actual words BLM specifically used, and all because what they have actually stated as their principles are genuinely quite shocking once you get past the completely understandable & worthy "end racism, end Police violence" message that the vast majority of people think is the ONLY message BLM have, when in reality it only makes up about 20% of BLM's stated principles.

Of course that's just a guess, I could be completely wrong and you could be a White supremacist, racist bigot instead for all know, but I think I'm probably closer with my first guess than the latter.
 
. . .
BLM's stated facts
. . .
Fact - "Trained Marxist" - Interpretation "well she could mean anything by saying that and even if she is it doesn't mean all of them are".
Fact - "We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure." - Interpretation "well they don't really mean that, they must mean something completely different to those words".
Fact - "supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another." - Interpretation "Well they don't really mean that, they must mean something completely different to those words".
. . .
I am not convinced that you know what the word "Fact" actually means.

. . . I could be completely wrong . . .
Indeed, you could ;)
 
I am not convinced that you know what the word "Fact" actually means.

Fact - As in all those things were directly written by BLM themselves or said in an interview and are therefore not my opinion or interpretation but things that they have directly said and written. Do you have a different understanding of the word perhaps?

Indeed, you could ;)

I often can be and yet I'm always happy to admit when I'm either wrong, or don't know something, as I feel like you never improve without some failures to help guide you. I also try (maybe not always succeed) to show the difference between when I give my "opinion" on something (I feel.... I think.... etc) from when I state something is factual, something which seems to be extremely rare in today's polarised society, where "opinions " are treated as if they are facts by many.
 
When someone's own website, own video interviews and own words tell me "We believe in the following.......", I believe them. You apparently think differently. I have no problem with that at all, only when you dismiss BLM's stated facts and replace what they actually said with your own interpretation of what those facts mean and give them as fact.

Except they don’t say what mmj originally said they say. So I can only assume you are projecting your own interpretation on to what they have said.

So my world view is that when someone tells me that they "are a trained Marxist" I think that they are are a Marxist. Your world view seems to be that when someone tells you that they "are a trained Marxist" that they don't mean it really, it's just means they might have studied a bit, it's not real Marxism, not really, and even if they are Marxists it doesn't mean ALL of them believe it. My world view of BLM is believing their statements to be facts. Your world view of BLM seems to believe that their statements are not facts but soft opinions to be interpreted however you like and don't really mean anything anyway i.e.

You appear to be missing key bits of context/understanding in your interpretation of the above:

Fact - "Trained Marxist" - Interpretation "well she could mean anything by saying that and even if she is it doesn't mean all of them are".

She says she’s ‘super-versed in ideology’ so no doubt she has been taught Marxism. She could equally have said she’s ‘trained in Critical Theory’.

In fact, I would argue the language used on the ‘what we believe’ page has far more grounding in Critical Theory (Post-colonialism, Critical Race Theory, Critical-Gender Theory etc) than it does with Marxism.

Fact - "We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure." - Interpretation "well they don't really mean that, they must mean something completely different to those words".

Again, you haven’t quoted the whole section. It’s “We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement…”

As I said earlier, and as Caracus’s statistics highlight, the nuclear family structure is already disrupted for the majority of African-Americans. Given the rest of the paragraph, it’s clear that they are trying to use community support to make up for the high numbers of absentee fathers. They aren’t saying the nuclear family has to be abolished.

Fact - "supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another." - Interpretation "Well they don't really mean that, they must mean something completely different to those words".

Firstly, how does that equate to being hostile towards the individual?

Secondly, ‘a village that collectively cares for one another’ does not equal ‘a collectivist system’, certainly not in the Communist sense. It used to just mean ‘a village’…

The problem is, you hear ‘Marxist’ and your mind automatically goes to the gulag. So you hear ‘collectively care for one another’ and assume that means a communist-style ‘collectivist system’.

That’s why I suggest you’re the one projecting.

You asked "pray tell, is this obvious world view that I hold?" and I'll take a good guess for you however no-one but you can truly know with 100% accuracy which kind of makes it pointless, however - I think that you don't like that the ideals that BLM "really" stands for, written in their own words, are radically different to what you "believed" BLM actually stood for in the beginning, and that difference between what BLM state as "fact" and what you think they stood for doesn't make any sense to you. That is why you're making up excuses as to why the words the BLM specifically use MUST mean something completely different to the actual words BLM specifically used, and all because what they have actually stated as their principles are genuinely quite shocking once you get past the completely understandable & worthy "end racism, end Police violence" message that the vast majority of people think is the ONLY message BLM have, when in reality it only makes up about 20% of BLM's stated principles.

Of course that's just a guess, I could be completely wrong and you could be a White supremacist, racist bigot instead for all know, but I think I'm probably closer with my first guess than the latter.

I honesty have little interest in BLM. The statistics appear to show that the movement is based on a false premise and I believe their approach is counterproductive to their stated aims.

What I am interested in is accuracy of speech and accuracy of thought.

‘Marxist’ gets thrown around in the same way as ‘Nazi’ when it comes to shutting down debate, so when I hear that BLM are “a Marxist group aiming to overthrow Capitalism, destroy the family unit and usher in a collectivist system that's hostile towards the individual…” my spidey-senses start to tingle and, as expected, the accusations appear to be spurious.*

*Edit — with the caveat that the BLMUK link that Caracus shared was the only thing that actually mentions capitalism.
 

Honestly you seem to be going out of your way to spin their radical agenda as something righteous, it's just bizarre.

The lack of black fathers is precisely why the nuclear family is so important and the fact they want to disrupt that demonstrates ill intent not good intent.

If they publish that they want to abolish capitalism on their own website it clearly demonstrates that they are a communist ideology, which is the very definition of a collectivist system that's hostile to the individual . I think your "spidey-senses" could convince you that Stalin wasn't a communist and Hitler was a humanitarian.
 
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