Laurence Fox

[PlacidCasual]

All of which would have been worse, far worse if we did not lockdown. The argument against lockdown makes no sense because it involves a collapsed health service and dead bodies piling high.

And you are entitled to that opinion. But people who disagree should be entitled to theirs. I'm not, to be clear, accusing you of having closed down discussion by the way.

Suggesting for instance that maybe we identified those who must be protected and allowed everyone else to get on with life as normal. The economic impact would have been much lower. Presuming there is a balance point at which letting most run free and get it doesn't overwhelm the health service and lead to an unacceptable death toll then that might have been a better outcome. Now maybe that balance point doesn't exist and this course is the only rational one, ok.

The problem as some see it is that the argument was never had and the argument was never allowed. There is the Lockdown orthodoxy of there is apostacy and nothing else. The Great Barrington Declaration was ignored or smeared but the people who endorsed it had the competence and experience that they should have been heard not ignored.

It seems that currently on every matter of contention their is an orthodoxy bordering on religious that seeks to close down debate and act to destroy any and all who question it. It is a deeply censorious culture that is already developing an increasing unhelpful counter culture.

 

[Roar87]

I think the main issue here is that Fox has quite a lot of dopey supporters. They're not interested in what little nuance he's able to generate within his own opinion sphere, they only think 'lockdown bad cus can't go drinking'. He's an 'opinion careerist' so I get it, this is his bread and butter. But for every person who might think there's something debate worthy about his opinions, there's 20 who just blindly agree with everything he says because confirmation bias...

Frankly, the hypocrisy of Fox trying to be this this apparent beacon of 'centrist thought' and 'nuanced opinion' yet his main platform is a social media site that limits your word count makes my eyes hurt from rolling, but there we go.

You're just making arrogant and incorrect assumptions about people you don't actually know; people who are just about annoyed "they can't go drinking" have no idea who Laurence Fox is, and if they use Twitter it's for football related things. I am so bored of hearing arrogant derogatory assumptions about groups of people from the types of people who would immediately decry racism or sexism; the lack of awareness of this hypocrisy is laughable.

 

[stockhausen]

David Icke on Gab is a good read . . .

Would that be the same David Icke who is politely described on Wikipedia as an English conspiracy theorist?

Wikipedia goes on to mention that In 1990, Icke, while a spokesman for the Green Party visited a psychic who revealed to him that he had been placed on earth for a purpose and that he would begin to receive messages from the spirit world. This startling revelation led him to announce in 1991 that he was a "Son of the Godhead" and that the world would soon be devastated by tidal waves and earthquakes.

I guess that in terms of the long history of the world 30 years is not "soon"

Has the Son of the Godhead expressed anything in relation to Laurence Fox yet?

. . . I am so bored of hearing arrogant derogatory assumptions about groups of people from the types of people who would immediately decry racism or sexism . . .

I take it from this that you would NOT decry racism or sexism?

 

[DrToffnar]

You're just making arrogant and incorrect assumptions about people you don't actually know; people who are just about annoyed "they can't go drinking" have no idea who Laurence Fox is, and if they use Twitter it's for football related things. I am so bored of hearing arrogant derogatory assumptions about groups of people from the types of people who would immediately decry racism or sexism; the lack of awareness of this hypocrisy is laughable.

You know what, that's a fair point and you've got me there.

However I will not concede to the point that Fox is a centrist careerist who absolutely targets a very specific group of people who in my experience don't look any further then a single specific source like Fox for all their info.

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

Aaaaaand straight into another sweeping generalisation. Well played.

 

[Irish_Tom]

All of which would have been worse, far worse if we did not lockdown. The argument against lockdown makes no sense because it involves a collapsed health service and dead bodies piling high.

Yeah, but, if the NHS can’t cope then it’s not fit for purpose.

 

[stockhausen]

Yeah, but, if the NHS can’t cope then it’s not fit for purpose.

Another interpretation is that the Government is starving the NHS of funds . . . I wonder why that might be the case and to what it could be leading up?

 

[DrToffnar]

Yeah, but, if the NHS can’t cope then it’s not fit for purpose.

I've seen this come up quite a few times and I think it's too loaded a statement without further explanation. I work for the NHS and I'd agree that it desperately needs reform in many areas, but that's not as a consequence of it being 'not fit for purpose' necessarily. This pandemic is not a good barometer to measure the successes or failures of a health service by because nothing like this has ever really happened before.

Genuinely not trying to poke here, would like to here you're thoughts.

Aaaaaand straight into another sweeping generalisation. Well played.

Not really. I said 'in my experience' which pretty much comes down to my own father and brother xD

You could literally swap either one of them out for the other when they talk Fox.

 

[Tony Edwards]

You know what, that's a fair point and you've got me there.

However I will not concede to the point that Fox is a centrist careerist who absolutely targets a very specific group of people who in my experience don't look any further then a single specific source like Fox for all their info.

All you have to do is look at Foxs twitter feed to see the sort of people that follow him. Its the same types that dont understand brexit either.

How anyone can try to defend him by saying he is just opening up debate is either deluding themself or lying to others. Fox is saying he isnt following guidlines he is still meeting groups of people indoors and that corona is not that bad on refection. While he and his probably well off friends that mainly work from home that is fine, but the types that read his nonsense. Those that have england flags and get brexit done in their title are not those people. The people that he has attracted by his type of PR are not those that either accept what scientist say or work from home.

Even recently we had a load of MPs had to self isolate because one of those that was at the meeting had corona. If that person hadnt had a test no one else would have known and could have caught it and then passed it on to the people that are in the shops he goes to or the coffee shop that queue behind them.

Pretending that Fox says these things to open up conversation is complete nonsene. What he is doing is just bragging about how much of an asshat he is and sadly those that agree with him arent much better.

The amount of people I see going into public places without masks on is saddening and infuriating.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Another interpretation is that the Government is starving the NHS of funds . . . I wonder why that might be the case and to what it could be leading up?

Indeed.

I've seen this come up quite a few times and I think it's too loaded a statement without further explanation. I work for the NHS and I'd agree that it desperately needs reform in many areas, but that's not as a consequence of it being 'not fit for purpose' necessarily. This pandemic is not a good barometer to measure the successes or failures of a health service by because nothing like this has ever really happened before.

Genuinely not trying to poke here, would like to here you're thoughts.

The 'if the NHS can't cope, it's not fit for purpose' comment was Fox's; it's not my view.

My post was a sarcastic and flippant comment in response to (and in agreement with) @200sols's post.

I hoped that the rolleyes would convey this adequately but clearly not; mea culpa.

 

[DrToffnar]

Indeed.



The 'if the NHS can't cope, it's not fit for purpose' comment was Fox's; it's not my view.

My post was a sarcastic and flippant comment in response to (and in agreement with) @200sols's post.

I hoped that the rolleyes would convey this adequately but clearly not; mea culpa.

Ahhh apologies! Not your fault, was on nights yesterday and my brain isn't a fan...

 

[stockhausen]

Indeed.



The 'if the NHS can't cope, it's not fit for purpose' comment was Fox's; it's not my view.

My post was a sarcastic and flippant comment in response to (and in agreement with) @200sols's post.

I hoped that the rolleyes would convey this adequately but clearly not; mea culpa.

Fair enough, I misunderstood, my apologies.

I have had my issues with the NHS in the past but I still believe that the concept of quality medical treatment for all, no matter how "high" or "low" is admirable.

There is money to be made out of medical treatment and as a result there is a deplorable temptation to attach a price to and privatise it.

 

[potatolord]

It seems that currently on every matter of contention their is an orthodoxy bordering on religious that seeks to close down debate and act to destroy any and all who question it. It is a deeply censorious culture that is already developing an increasing unhelpful counter culture.

Pretty much agree with that.

It seems to me that many people have replaced the old moral certainty of religious belief with other philosophies.

To be fair though, if you wouldn't say it to your mate's brother on a night out, you probably shouldn't say it at all.

 

[chroniclard]

Would that be the same David Icke who is politely described on Wikipedia as an English conspiracy theorist?

Wikipedia goes on to mention that In 1990, Icke, while a spokesman for the Green Party visited a psychic who revealed to him that he had been placed on earth for a purpose and that he would begin to receive messages from the spirit world. This startling revelation led him to announce in 1991 that he was a "Son of the Godhead" and that the world would soon be devastated by tidal waves and earthquakes.

I guess that in terms of the long history of the world 30 years is not "soon"

Has the Son of the Godhead expressed anything in relation to Laurence Fox yet?


I take it from this that you would NOT decry racism or sexism?

Same David Icke yes, he has run out of legitimate platforms for his nonsense so has joined the rest of societies losers on Gab, probably spreading his wisdom on Parler too.

 

[Roadrunner_668]

Same David Icke yes, he has run out of legitimate platforms for his nonsense so has joined the rest of societies losers on Gab, probably spreading his wisdom on Parler too.

parler is a cess pool dear lord i signed up briefly because some friends did and they were all posting nonsense they couldnt get away with elsewhere ! dangerous!"

 

[chroniclard]

parler is a cess pool dear lord i signed up briefly because some friends did and they were all posting nonsense they couldnt get away with elsewhere ! dangerous!"

Yeah, similar to Gab I expect. Quite literally just full of misinformation and conspiracy theories. If you disagree with any posts you will instantly be abused, favourite generally being lib t, commie, soy boy(not sure what that is, probably homophobic) and (offal meatball).

Given its supposedly a free speech platform I have been banned at least 10 times, I change my sign up name to FactChecker and "check" peoples posts, they rage so hard, its great fun.

 

[silvagti]

Looks like the conservatives Liz Truss is trying to court the Reclaim Party voters!

https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1339618377883643904?s=20

https://news.sky.com/story/liz-trus...ond-race-or-gender-in-equality-fight-12165920

I'm not confined by his arguments on lockdown but I feel Laurence Fox is only saying what most people think regarding the 'equality' legislation some identity groups are proposing.

There are too many identity groups out there trying to demand preferential treatment (quotas/etc) and demanding an "equal" outcome rather than asking for equal opportunities and a level playing field.

I find it ironic that many of these groups ask us to not judge people because of their skin/gender/etc then insist they be given additional opportunities because of the group they identify as!

 

[Roadrunner_668]

Yeah, similar to Gab I expect. Quite literally just full of misinformation and conspiracy theories. If you disagree with any posts you will instantly be abused, favourite generally being lib t, commie, soy boy(not sure what that is, probably homophobic) and (offal meatball).

Given its supposedly a free speech platform I have been banned at least 10 times, I change my sign up name to FactChecker and "check" peoples posts, they rage so hard, its great fun.

literally that yes

thats funny you should post the results of that ha ha

 

[Roar87]

Yeah, similar to Gab I expect. Quite literally just full of misinformation and conspiracy theories. If you disagree with any posts you will instantly be abused, favourite generally being lib t, commie, soy boy(not sure what that is, probably homophobic) and (offal meatball).

Given its supposedly a free speech platform I have been banned at least 10 times, I change my sign up name to FactChecker and "check" peoples posts, they rage so hard, its great fun.

Really living life to the fullest

 

[Angilion]

Yeah, similar to Gab I expect. Quite literally just full of misinformation and conspiracy theories. If you disagree with any posts you will instantly be abused, favourite generally being lib t, commie, soy boy(not sure what that is, probably homophobic) and (offal meatball).

Given its supposedly a free speech platform I have been banned at least 10 times, I change my sign up name to FactChecker and "check" peoples posts, they rage so hard, its great fun.

I think "soy boy" is more "you're effeminate!" than "you're homosexual!" Soya contains phytoestrogens and there's little study on its effects on men (although what little there is indicates "probably none"), so I suspect those people have read something and ran with it a long, long way further than is justified. They probably think it's a conspiracy.

Gab doesn't sound particularly unusual, just another echo chamber. Which is a shame. I was hoping they actually were in favour of freedom of speech.