Lazy people at work

Deleted member 77746 · 13 Jan 2011 at 14:45

Cuchulain said:
how can you be 1st AND 2nd line support, what do you tell customers? "I'll escalate that from me to me .."

No, all I say is I will log the job and get around to it as soon as possible. Where I work we have had tier 1 cut, tier 2 survived and tier 2 got tier 1 aswell as tier 2 responsibility.

Ev0 · 13 Jan 2011 at 14:48

Cuchulain said:
how can you be 1st AND 2nd line support, what do you tell customers? "I'll escalate that from me to me .."

Kind of

You could take a call 1st line, be unable to fix it whilst on the phone, so have to do it later when not on the phone a la a 2nd line person.

You could be part of a team where manning the phones is on a rota basis, when you're not on phone duty you are 2nd line.

Gilly · 13 Jan 2011 at 14:49

Usually people refer to themselves as 1st/2nd line when they think they are above 'call monkey'.

I know I did it when I was a kidder

Amnesia · 13 Jan 2011 at 14:52

you're better off kissing him and making up

anything I don't mind · 13 Jan 2011 at 14:52

3rd line is there to resolve the issues that are beyond 2nd line's remit.

I never pass anything to the guy that comes from the user base because we are technically capable of doing the server work ourselves and he does not know all the software applications that we run anyway. So even issues that come up with the servers we have to sort it out. If there is an issue on exchange or on the dc or on the firewall then he will do that. But there is rarely anything like that to do. A few times in the last 8 months we have had a problem with a server that he has dealt with. But he does not care about the site, so he is not pro active in anyway what so ever. If the boss or the client does not request something he won't do it. So no patches or updates on any of the servers get done. I had to update mcafee epo and prtg myself because he would not do it unless told to do so. But mcafee was causing problems on the user side so i wanted to upgrade to resolve that. as an example. None of the client machines are up to date because he is does not want to cause more problems (due to updates), even though we have a wsus server, it was not used. I have since had to get that going with a test machines etc.

Gilly · 13 Jan 2011 at 14:54

Is he a permanent staff member or a contractor?

Deleted member 77746 · 13 Jan 2011 at 14:55

groen said:
I never pass anything to the guy that comes from the user base because we are technically capable of doing the server work ourselves and he does not know all the software applications that we run anyway. So even issues that come up with the servers we have to sort it out. If there is an issue on exchange or on the dc or on the firewall then he will do that. But there is rarely anything like that to do. A few times in the last 8 months we have had a problem with a server that he has dealt with. But he does not care about the site, so he is not pro active in anyway what so ever. If the boss or the client does not request something he won't do it. So no patches or updates on any of the servers get done. I had to update mcafee epo and prtg myself because he would not do it unless told to do so. But mcafee was causing problems on the user side so i wanted to upgrade to resolve that. as an example. None of the client machines are up to date because he is does not want to cause more problems, even though we have a wsus server, it was not used. I have since had to get that going with a test machines etc.

Then look at your job description and see what your roles are.

anything I don't mind · 13 Jan 2011 at 14:58

Is he a permanent staff member or a contractor?

He is perm employee of the out sourcing company that we both work for and he has been on this site for two years. i have been on site for 8 months, the other three days of the week he is at another site.

He has the attitude that if it is not broken don't fix it, he is happy to do no work and just have the site tick over. But i have to support the users etc and his laziness causes more work for myself.

Abraham · 13 Jan 2011 at 14:59

3rd line is usually there to handle the extremes of 2nd line and project/infrastructure stuff. If he hasn't got any project work, and you're not escalating anything to him, then you can't say he should be doing some of the more menial bits of your job. You should be escalating more work to him and doing the menial stuff yourself.

Delvis · 13 Jan 2011 at 15:02

How are your updates and everything done exactly?

If you do them manually and its hindering your work I'd suggest trying to get a self managed system that does the updates automatically every week etc...it really takes the edge off things and allows you to get on with 'work'.

Also...He's probably worked his way up from 1st line anyway to where he is now...so you know

Gilly · 13 Jan 2011 at 15:03

groen said:
He has the attitude that if it is not broken don't fix it

So do I

Ev0 · 13 Jan 2011 at 15:07

Delvis said:
How are your updates and everything done exactly?

If you do them manually and its hindering your work I'd suggest trying to get a self managed system that does the updates automatically every week etc...it really takes the edge off things and allows you to get on with 'work'.

He mentioned they have a WSUS server, just that it's not being used.

The issue here to me is that as it's an outsourced deal you'd need to know what the contracts say about things like product updates.

Like who is responsible for initiating the work, raising the change request to get it done?

I'm assuming you raise change requests for all the work and get them approved before doing it?

Also depends what his contract says his duties and responsibilities are.

aln · 13 Jan 2011 at 15:08

Gilly said:
Some people have a better work ethic than others

If he doesn't do basic admin (as I wouldn't expect a 3rd liner to do) then I can understand his reaction. Who are you to tell him he should get involved in your work more?

This.

Also, as much as you feel that you're being exploited and that he's lazy, he's actually doing you a huge favour. If he was doing the 3rd line stuff, you wouldn't be, thus you wouldn't have the commercial experience needed to step into a 3rd line support role at an improved wage.

You may want to consider that you've got his job role a bit wrong. Ultimately unless you're privy to the expectations placed upon him, it may be that he's specifically been told to delegate everything to lower tiers, and to only assist when required. This may be an envious position to be in, but it's probably something he's worked himself into.

Depending on how long you've been doing it and how comfortable you are doing 3rd line stuff, if you feel you can step into a 3rd line role then shop around and either do so, or use it as justification for moving up in your current company. The only reason to really complain about your co-worker is if your taking in in the neck for the ticket queue lengths, or that you're trying to usurp him from his job. Either way, it will probably not reflect well on yourself.

If you do decide to shop around, which its only smart to do, the important thing to remember is 1st, 2nd and 3rd line support varies greatly between companies. You can only base your skillset on what you're capable of doing whilst the job title is largely irrelevant.

Delvis · 13 Jan 2011 at 15:11

Ev0 said:
He mentioned they have a WSUS server, just that it's not being used.

The issue here to me is that as it's an outsourced deal you'd need to know what the contracts say about things like product updates.

Apologies didn't see it...

As you mentioned (I think) it would depend on the Support contract on who's servers / workstations are managed by the support company...

I'd really suggest to 'your boss' about why it isn't used, or if it can be used to push updates out...all depends on what was sold on the contract

anything I don't mind · 13 Jan 2011 at 15:11

3rd line is usually there to handle the extremes of 2nd line and project/infrastructure stuff. If he hasn't got any project work, and you're not escalating anything to him, then you can't say he should be doing some of the more menial bits of your job. You should be escalating more work to him and doing the menial stuff yourself.

Fair comment, but when i have tried to escalate to him he just makes a joke about it and says that he does not know how to do it and then i would have to explain to him how to do it and i might as well do it myself if that is the case.

Say i want to escalate this post dictation server upgrade issues and dealing with the supplier. I would have to explain to him the whole situation and he would say that he does not know enough about it do it and that i might as well do it. So that is why i suggested he do some of the ordering and document admin stuff.

Anyway, thanks for your replies. Guess i will continue being the sucker who does all the work, i should just be like him and not give a ****, then when something does not get done i can just point fingers.

Gilly · 13 Jan 2011 at 15:13

So what you want to do is the technical stuff, and delegate the document admin to 3rd line?

If you think he needs to be capable of the stuff you're escalating to him, and he isn't, that is what you should be taking to management.

However, if you're capable, why were you escalating it?

Delvis · 13 Jan 2011 at 15:15

groen said:
Fair comment, but when i have tried to escalate to him he just makes a joke about it and says that he does not know how to do it and then i would have to explain to him how to do it and i might as well do it myself if that is the case.

Say i want to escalate this post dictation server upgrade issues and dealing with the supplier. I would have to explain to him the whole situation and he would say that he does not know enough about it do it and that i might as well do it. So that is why i suggested he do some of the ordering and document admin stuff.

Anyway, thanks for your replies. Guess i will continue being the sucker who does all the work, i should just be like him and not give a ****, then when something does not get done i can just point fingers.

What do you use for your ticket system? Why isn't everything documented so that he CAN pick up the ticket say if your absent etc?...I've learned to literally document everything on a ticket, it covers your back as well as becomes a source for reference

And I really wouldnt start not given a who-harr...wouldnt do you any favours

Deleted member 77746 · 13 Jan 2011 at 15:17

Gilly said:
So what you want to do is the technical stuff, and delegate the document admin to 3rd line?

If you think he needs to be capable of the stuff you're escalating to him, and he isn't, that is what you should be taking to management.

However, if you're capable, why were you escalating it?

Even if someone is capable, it's no excuse for a 3rd line tier to not do their own job. It takes a lot of pressure of tier 1 / tier 2 for starters.

Delvis · 13 Jan 2011 at 15:17

Gilly said:
However, if you're capable, why were you escalating it?

I used to ask colleagues to help if I was over loaded...But then agian my boss used to say to me 'Just tell someone if your are having trouble or there are too many calls'...

Isn't hard...sounds like the companys a bit odd tbh

anything I don't mind · 13 Jan 2011 at 15:18

So do I

I think everyone has that attitude. But what i meant was that he does not care to keep the servers or clients up to date or do any maintenance that is not specifically requested. Like updating epo or prtg, he will never initiate work that is not specifically requested of him, even if will cause problems down the road, he does not care. I take more of a pro active approach and i like to keep things up to date and optimised etc. He just leaves it all a mess, until something breaks.