Lostprophets Singer Facing Child Sex Charges

Hang him high I say.

One thing I don't get is why these disgusting paedophile women get protection from the law by having their names kept secret. If you contrast this with the treatment of Marine A, it beggars belief. Sure protect the kids - give them new identities not the mothers who abused them.
 
Hang him high I say.

One thing I don't get is why these disgusting paedophile women get protection from the law by having their names kept secret. If you contrast this with the treatment of Marine A, it beggars belief. Sure protect the kids - give them new identities not the mothers who abused them.

Because of knuckle dragging vengeful ignoramuses who can't mind their own business :confused:
If everyone was civilized, minded their own business and allowed our judicial system to do it's job their would be no need to protect their identity (other than to protect the identity of the victims of course, however that's only part of why the identity needs to be protected!)
 
Because of knuckle dragging vengeful ignoramuses who can't mind their own business :confused:
If everyone was civilized, minded their own business and allowed our judicial system to do it's job their would be no need to protect their identity (other than to protect the identity of the victims of course, however that's only part of why the identity needs to be protected!)

So no one wants retribution when Watkins is released then??
 
Disciplining a child and attempting to rape one are two very very different things, youd have to be raving mad to think otherwise
Lol because that's what I said.

I said physical abuse, ie beating a child (which causes the aforementioned mental disorders & problems in later life - very similar to sexual abuse). If you want to judge the crime based on it's negative impact on the life of a child then they are comparable.

Any particular instances of physical abuse against children you felt were commended, or at least not condemned?

Also you do you feel that one instance of corporal punishment would carry the same emotional impact as another, even if in one there was an element of sexual abuse and not in the other?
As above, I didn't even imply that one instance of corporal punishment would be comparable - I said physical abuse, to the extent of which the child would have a much high propensity to grow up with blunted empathy, more likely to be a criminal, drug addict or a number of other negative outcomes a result of it.

I was going to say I don't think he's talking about this or that, but he'll read this and chime in, I think he's guilty of something I do, I think about something then make a statement that isn't very clear without having the thoughts that went along with it.

Unless he just feels that child abuse with a non-sexual element is seen as acceptable in society, if so he could do with elaborating on this.
Considerably more - implying a higher degree, not that it is socially acceptable (you don't get witch-hunts for people who severely beat children).

edit - Apologies if you read any bluntness in my reply, I misread part of your post - you are correct, I do sometimes do that as you say.
 
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elmarko just to back you up I know someone who was abused as a child. They are now living a very successful life, married with a kid on the way, a Uni degree and decent salary. They are very happy and certainly have more and are happier then me right now.

That's not to say for one second it hasn't affected them or been something anyone would wish to happen but it's not that case that every victim of child abuse turns into an emotional wreck that's addicted to drugs and living in the gutter for the rest of their lives which is what is often the view of victims that is put forward by the media.
 
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Thing that strikes me as even more odd with all these recent celeb pedo charges is that these celebs, a lot of them, could get any women, well a lot more than most guys could. You know what i mean, the likes of this guy probably had perfect 18 year olds at his whim. Its like they starved for choice and bored of it all so go off the deep end and starting getting in to weird ****, maybe i am wrong trying to understand it. Can't understand crazy, just not possible.
 
elmarko just to back you up I know someone who was abused as a child. They are now living a very successful life, married with a kid on the way, a Uni degree and decent salary. They are very happy and certainly have more and are happier then me right now.

That's not to say for one second it hasn't affected them or been something no one would wish to happen but it's not that case that every victim of child abuse turns into an emotional wreck that's addicted to drugs and living in the gutter for the rest of their lives which is what is often the view of victims that is put forward by the media.
Obviously - exceptions, but we are talking averages here (some people see that as evidence that it doesn't have a huge negative impact).

Suicide rates & severe self harming are vastly higher in victims of child abuse, but violence & blunted empathy are also significantly higher in victims of physical abuse.
 
Thing that strikes me as even more odd with all these recent celeb pedo charges is that these celebs, a lot of them, could get any women, well a lot more than most guys could. You know what i mean, the likes of this guy probably had perfect 18 year olds at his whim. Its like they starved for choice and bored of it all so go off the deep end and starting getting in to weird ****, maybe i am wrong trying to understand it. Can't understand crazy, just not possible.
Who knows, I also can't understand.

Is it genetic?, learned?, the result of experience? - who knows.

As a society it would be bloody good to know for certain (so then just maybe we can find a 'cure'? - as sickness does seem appropriate - I can't believe anybody right in the head by any stretch of the imagination could do such a thing).
 
People who rape and inflict abuse are more likely to have had similar experiences in their own life. Hurt people hurt people as they say in psychology circles. But not all people who are abused will necessarily go on to inflict abuse, in a lot cases they go on to do that exact opposite. But it is quite rare or rather the exception to see person with a perfectly harmless life go on to commit such abuses.
 
Because of knuckle dragging vengeful ignoramuses who can't mind their own business :confused:
If everyone was civilized, minded their own business and allowed our judicial system to do it's job their would be no need to protect their identity (other than to protect the identity of the victims of course, however that's only part of why the identity needs to be protected!)

Knowing who is and isn't a paedophile is everyone's business imo.

I used the example of Marine A - surely he's just as much at risk of violence from knuckle-dragging sub-human scum as these women are. Why do they get protection and he didn't?
 
In reality if somebody is a danger to society then they should never be released, surely the problem is releasing people without solving the underline issues related to the negative behaviour?.

I can't see how Joe Public having a list of names (who knowing how stupid they are would murder a guy who happened to share the name of a local paedophile, or say look a bit like him) would solve anything - if we had an intelligent & rational public I'd be more inclined to listen to this kind of suggestion without laughing.

I guess the protection was for their children rather than them. But then they would be stupid to not give them new identities with new families anyway. So seems hypocritical in some ways.
It's a messy affair, but for all we know the children may in later life decide to make contact with their real parents, but public & online information as to what happened would complicate the matter (as if it was known who the parents are, as a by-product it would for the children).

As stated earlier, if the public didn't trash the house of paediatricians or murder disabled people for looking after their flower patch then I'd wager the law wouldn't be so strict.
 
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Knowing who is and isn't a paedophile is everyone's business imo.

I used the example of Marine A - surely he's just as much at risk of violence from knuckle-dragging sub-human scum as these women are. Why do they get protection and he didn't?

The protection isn't for them, it is for their children, they are protecting the victims of the crime.
 
Obviously - exceptions, but we are talking averages here (some people see that as evidence that it doesn't have a huge negative impact).

Suicide rates & severe self harming are vastly higher in victims of child abuse, but violence & blunted empathy are also significantly higher in victims of physical abuse.

I was seriously and systematically abused as a child. Enough that my mother was detained for some time (found not mentally able to answer for her actions so was hospitalised) and I was put into the care system (I grew up in the US). I went through several stages..never really suicidal, but violence and rebellion were certainly one of them (I was a member of a street gang), as was associative depression and to some extent a blunted ability to relate to others...however with treatment (I was in a very progressive youth offender program for a time, I have spoken about it before) and some fantastic and patient people in my late teens (as well as moving out of that environment) I was able to deal with it and realise that my actions were self destructive and ultimately my own responsibility. I was becoming (to some degree) what I detested the most. I can relate to the idea that the abused become abusers, but I don't hold to idea that it is not therefore their own responsibility or that it mitigates that responsibility.

So I don't hold that we are not responsible for what we do (I'm not sure if that was what you were saying or not, just giving my view), regardless of the mitigation regarding abuse etc...some actions can be justified of course (a child attacking or even killing an abuser for example)...but in the main, even when I was at my worst, I still knew what I was doing and what I was doing was wrong.

I feel that my childhood has driven me somewhat since I left the US and it certainly made me appreciate Family and (despite my former profession) I am probably the most non-violent person you could meet, capable, but unwilling is probably the best way to put it.

People like the lost prophets singer I cannot understand..I cannot understand my mother or to a lesser extent my father and what they did...especially since having a child of my own, whose wellbeing is always my primary concern and objective. I think some people are just not wired correctly.
 
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In reality if somebody is a danger to society then they should never be released, surely the problem is releasing people without solving the underline issues related to the negative behaviour?.
.

I had a bloke in prison that I had to deal with everyday, horrid person, really the dregs of society, he burgled a woman's house in Hampshire and was sentenced to 3 years. He served them, he was underlying evil.

He was released in May I believe and in June went back to her house broke in, raped her repeatedly and put a knife to her throat and told her he will kill her.

He should never have been released the first time. All the way through his sentence he was a horrible little *****. He has now been further sentenced for that crime and got 18 years.

My 2p's are the same as you posted above, they MOJ and Prisons/Probation don't have the manpower to try and rehabilitate people any more - this leads to things like the story above.
 
For serious sexual offences where guilt is without any doubt, in this case pleaded guilty etc. They should be chemically or even surgically castrated.
You have the same problem as capital punishment - people have been executed in trials in which it was 'without doubt' who have turned out to be innocent.

Personally, cutting off a persons wang who later turned out to be innocent would be a pretty poor thing to do to a guy. If they really are still a threat to the public then simply don't let them out.

I was seriously and systematically abused as a child. Enough that my mother was detained for some time (found not mentally able to answer for her actions so was hospitalised) and I was put into the care system (I grew up in the US). I went through several stages..never really suicidal, but violence and rebellion were certainly one of them (I was a member of a street gang), as was associative depression and to some extent a blunted ability to relate to others...however with treatment (I was in a very progressive youth offender program for a time, I have spoken about it before) and some fantastic and patient people in my late teens (as well as moving out of that environment) I was able to deal with it and realise that my actions were self destructive and ultimately my own responsibilty.

I don't hold that we are not responsible for what we do, regardless of the mitigation regarding abuse etc...some actions can be justified of course..but in the main, even when I was at my worst, I still knew what I was doing. I feel that my childhood has driven me somewhat since I left the US and it certainly made me appreciate Family and (despite my former profession) I am probably the most non-violent person you could meet, capable, but unwilling is probably the best way to put it.
I do agree that some have the inner fortitude to withstand terrible experience (yourself being a key example), also as you said yourself - the very progressive youth offender program would have helped, ultimately do you believe the violence you were involved in - in your youth was a result of your experiences?.

I'm firmly in the camp of pro-treatment & for most I'd wager it's possible - but many don't ever get any treatment. You are obviously correct mind, exceptions exist all around us, but I'm not willing to so quickly abandon those who do experience serious abuse of any kind as being responsible for the end result of it. The statistics in these matters do not lie.

Personally, I'm strongly against blame allocation to victims (I know your not doing it in 'that way' btw - just to clarify) but I honestly don't think that victims of serious abuse are responsible for what they do - not at least until they have been taught responsibility & how to behave in society (which many are not).

NOTE - *clarification not aimed at you* - this does not mean their actions should be permitted or accepted, no more than somebody wielding a knife during a serve episode should be allowed to murder people.

I would like to thank you for being so open & honest about it & it does please me greatly to know things worked out great for you - don't get me wrong, I'm not being argumentative, quite the opposite - my experiences as a child resulting in me having to develop empathy at a very young age (grew up close to a family member with very severe depression, paranoia & schizophrenia) as a result it's changed my outlook on human behaviour, I see causal links where others see blame - but my primary focus is to reduce net human suffering.

Anyway, sorry for going off-topic.
 
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I do agree that some have the inner fortitude to withstand terrible experience (yourself being a key example), also as you said yourself - the very progressive youth offender program would have helped, ultimately do you believe the violence you were involved in - in your youth was a result of your experiences?.

Partially, the abuse had certain consequences not directly attributed to the actual abuse...the lack of parental authority, the absence of a moral guideline and the need for escape and family led me into a life where I replaced my absent family with the group of friends I fell in with...I am still friends with many of them now, those that are still with us...despite our inherent differences, we are and will remain brothers, it is hard to define, but it is what it is I suppose, the ties that bind us.

I'm firmly in the camp of pro-treatment & for most I'd wager it's possible - but many don't ever get any treatment. You are obviously correct mind, exceptions exist all around us, but I'm not willing to so quickly abandon those who do experience serious abuse of any kind as being responsible for the end result of it. The statistics in these matters do not lie.

Good god, yes!

Proactive treatment and care is essential...however we should only mitigate responsibility for actions rather than excuse them...like I said I knew what I was doing, however to some extent I was not fully enabled to have the ability to control them...so yes, treatment and rehabilitation is far better than punishment in these cases.

I would like to thank you for being so open & honest about it & it does please me greatly to know things worked out great for you - don't get me wrong, I'm not being argumentative, quite the opposite - my experiences as a child resulting in me having to develop empathy at a very young age (grew up close to a family member with very severe depression, paranoia & schizophrenia) as a result it's changed my outlook on human behaviour, I see causal links where others see blame - but my primary focus is to reduce net human suffering.

I am extremely empathic..I had to be to survive, I understand people and their intentions from the smallest of indicators, even today I still retain that survival trait. However that is something different from being able to relate to people as I said previously, although I am far better now, I did find it difficult to trust and even today I am still cynical when it comes to people, especially those I don't know. Again, something directly attributable to my childhood.

I think where you talk about causal links and not assigning blame, I am talking about mitigation...we are broadly saying similar things, just our emphasis is a little different in how we disseminate the responsibility from the mitigation.

I know what it is like also, my mother was diagnosed with severe mental illness, although I know it mitigates some of her actions..it still doesn't absolve her actions. Perhaps our differing experiences influence our slightly different approach.
 
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