[MAFIA] The Thirteen Doctors

Iviv has questioned my lack of "actual content" which is fair enough. We aren't going to be able to go forward unless we are all actively joining the debate. Up until now I had not formed any concrete theories on anyone though it is rather hard to do so on day 1 with no voting patterns to go on. In previous games I (as have everyone else) have been poor at judging people. Evidenced by the town not successfully outing a Mafia member. However, as Iviv has statistically shown, we do need to have a day 1 lynch to help our cause.

I voted for Chris for a couple of early reasons. Primarily the fact that he stated it was his first game yet comes across as a veteran. He has been at the forefront of all discussions and his voting has flipflopped between various people. Whilst none of the above are conclusive reasoning I haven't seen anything from anyone else that makes me want to vote for them more.

I've reread the whole thread (took far too long!) and made afew notes. So here are afew of my thoughts.

Voting patterns: there has been a lot of vote moving this time round, with the announced aim that it is to encourage lurkers to talk. Which in fairness it has. However, it could be a cunning ploy to act as a way of people being able to analyse voting patterns further down the line.

Targeting Lurkers/quiet people: I'm not sure this is the right stratagy. In previous games the mafia have been pretty vocal throughout and often led the town. This tactic may or may not be repeated but its certainly worth us looking at.

As for thoughts on individuals- again like anyone elses reasoning its not really based on fact as its too early in the game but for what its worth:

Those that I think are most likely town are: Kaiowas, Psymonkee, Pudney, Leprechaun and Egon.

Pookie Im not sure on, but can't pin down why.

Killswitch hasn't done anything either way to suggest allegiance to town or mafia, but equally he hasn't posted a great deal.

Shorttricky I thought in most probability is town- though his reasoning for voting Pookie was pretty poor. "I may have got it wrong if I am I'm sorry" Seems like an easy way out and a possible mafia excuse.

Shami's vote on Chris seemed a bit scummish at the time though in retrospect being so overt in a vote doesn't seem like a mafia thing to do. So I would say he's town at the moment.

Fortyseven's approach has been a little erratic. Though in particular his "experiment" to vote Pookie. There was absolutely no reasoning beyond this and seemed a bit odd.

Iviv has been leading the town and moving his vote around quite a lot. He has also been providing coaching on tactics. In the last game I made the mistake of thinking this was a clever ploy by Jedi and I got him lynched. I'm not going to make the same mistake so for now going to take Iviv at face value and his approach in good faith.
 
Chriscubed, if you truly think I'm one of the bad guys, then you're capable of reading things I haven't written or you're mafia and covering your own back.

The bottom line is that anything today is a guess and to outright state that I'm mafia (as chriscubed has done) means you know more than I do - and all I know is that I'm innocent. Read into that what you will.

My vote was purely because statistically I wanted to try and ensure we had a lynching today. At least chriscubed tried to justify his decision (however poorly) and that made me waver and think about the other two pointing their fingers at me (with even less justification - I'm sorry but I just can't argue with someone's spider-sense tingling!) - but now he's made an outright statement (with absolutely no proof whatsoever), I have to keep my finger pointing at him just to try and stay alive.

If anyone else wants to vote for me today, at least I'll dangle with a massive dose of smug self-satisfaction - that's worth an early exit - and if that happens I hope the rest of you do me a favour and tomorrow lynch one of those who are currently voting for me.
 
07 Pudney - Slight town - Has been advocating pro town behaviour, starting to see him follow his own advice at last though by posting more and voting.

My contributions and postings are dictated by work, last night was the first time I had a proper chance to sit down as I'd collapsed after playing 5-a-side :D

Just a point on my vote for 47 - currently I'm basing this off the fact his posting would be something I'd do if mafia. The only concern though is that 47 had a history of doing silly things in the last game. I'd like to think he's learnt from that though and is being more thoughtful this time round, but that is an assumption :p
 
9 1/2 hours to get a majority in. If you aren't going to be able to pay attention to the thread closer to the deadline then at least look at the current options and vote for whoever looks to most suspicious to you.
 
Chriscubed, if you truly think I'm one of the bad guys, then you're capable of reading things I haven't written or you're mafia and covering your own back.

But then, you would say that, if you were scum. Don't see any evidence in your posts to refute the things I say. The things you wrote were:

As for bloodthirsty, I would suggest that voting to kill someone is bloodthirsty.
Each day we don't lynch means we lose a townie when the mafia night-kill. snip
Bottom line is my feelings haven't changed - iviv and chriscubed are still top of my ****list "acting in the best interests of the town" - although shorttricky obviously has issues :D

You were actively opposing the two players (myself and iviv) showing pro-town stance early on. You flip-flopped between voting is good, and voting is bad. Ultimately, you may not be scum (the alternative is that you're a misguided townie), but if not you've taken a pretty weird stance to first day scumhunting. Guess who doesn't like scumhunting? Mafia.

The bottom line is that anything today is a guess and to outright state that I'm mafia (as chriscubed has done) means you know more than I do - and all I know is that I'm innocent. Read into that what you will.

Yes, it is a guess. Just the same as every day is a guess - in 3 games how many successful lynches have we had? I have done everything I can to give us an educated guess on day 1, however much it put me out on a ledge. If I generated enough discussion and was lynched on day 1 then so be it, I will have done my job as a townie and given us a fighting chance for tomorrow.

If you get lynched, sure you will be smug but what will you have gained for the town?
 
If anyone else wants to vote for me today, at least I'll dangle with a massive dose of smug self-satisfaction - that's worth an early exit - and if that happens I hope the rest of you do me a favour and tomorrow lynch one of those who are currently voting for me.

Perhaps you would get smug satisfaction - I did when I got killed last game, and to be honest, it felt great :D

It's just as easy to take that post as the actions of a mafia trying to protect themselves with righteous indignation as it is genuine sentiment. Just like you did with mine...

A glib "I'm sorry if I'm wrong" has "I'm mafia and I know you're innocent, but I want to cover my backside in case you get lynched" written all over it.


(with even less justification - I'm sorry but I just can't argue with someone's spider-sense tingling!)

I've (kind of) justified it a couple of times. It's not like I can see if you have every season of Sopranos queued on Netflix :D. You and Leprecahaun have both called me out on it many times, but you've let others slide.

I stated my position (others haven't), made my vote and stuck to it.
 
You were actively opposing the two players (myself and iviv) showing pro-town stance early on. You flip-flopped between voting is good, and voting is bad. Ultimately, you may not be scum (the alternative is that you're a misguided townie), but if not you've taken a pretty weird stance to first day scumhunting. Guess who doesn't like scumhunting? Mafia.
My position has always been that we need to lynch, but throwing votes around willy-nilly is bloodthirsty. Your entire premise is flawed - voting and talking does not make you pro-town - because then the mafia would never shut up. All it means is you like talking and voting and think it makes you look pro-town.

My position was that we have always lynched the quiet ones and that hasn't worked - so pointing the finger at the quiet and voting for them is just perpetuating what has failed before. If you think looking at what we've done wrong in the past and trying to change that makes me anti-town, then that tells me that you're happy to just carry on doing the same stupid things we've always done.

Yes, it is a guess. Just the same as every day is a guess - in 3 games how many successful lynches have we had? I have done everything I can to give us an educated guess on day 1, however much it put me out on a ledge. If I generated enough discussion and was lynched on day 1 then so be it, I will have done my job as a townie and given us a fighting chance for tomorrow. If you get lynched, sure you will be smug but what will you have gained for the town?
An educated guess is still a guess - putting the word educated in front of it is just an attempt to make it more valid - and it isn't. If you think either of us getting lynched means more than the other, then you're deluded. At least my lynching will mean that those who vote for me should feature far more highly on people's danger lists - but then again, it seems to me that you just read the parts of my posts that you want to, so I'm not entirely sure why I'm bothering arguing with you.
 
At the moment I still can't see a reason to change my vote, so for now I'm leaving it where it is

Brabbinho, presuming you're town, the case is this:
You're currently voting for me. I've been pro-town stance since the start.
Ignore the first vote, the first vote is often random in games of Mafia, we just never progressed past it on the 3 previous games on OcUK.
I haven't called for bandwagons or blood against people, instead I used my vote to call out lurkers. Once that problem was dealt with, I've moved on and clearly pointed out Pookie is my favourite for scum at the moment and given comprehensive reasons why.

A number of active, sensible players such as kaiowas, iviv and Egon have expressed surprise at the vote for me or changed their mind since I have explained myself. Why are you still voting for me?

I'm not telling you who to vote, but there are a number of suspicions raised regarding Pookie and FortySeven (the latter is not mine) who both have 3 votes each. Make up your own mind, but don't just go with the flow on me because you voted for me before I explained myself.
 
Perhaps you would get smug satisfaction - I did when I got killed last game, and to be honest, it felt great :D

It's just as easy to take that post as the actions of a mafia trying to protect themselves with righteous indignation as it is genuine sentiment. Just like you did with mine...
It's suitable compensation when your name comes up with Townie next to it - I had it when I was the cop in game two and, as in that game, my position has not changed and I've not said anything untrue. If people vote for me, then that's their issue - at least I'll be able to stick a few fingers up on my way to the lynching tree! :D

I've (kind of) justified it a couple of times. It's not like I can see if you have every season of Sopranos queued on Netflix :D. You and Leprecahaun have both called me out on it many times, but you've let others slide.

I stated my position (others haven't), made my vote and stuck to it.
Who have I let slide? Everyone whose voted against has had comment made about them - and the spider-sense comment applied to K1LLSW1TCH too.

And Egon - how you think that's a case against me is baffling. It has zero actual evidence - it's a guess - and he's just upset because I don't think flip-flopping multiple votes and spouting off makes you pro-town.
 
That's not really a case at all, it's just blind guessing. Pretending it's anything other than that at this stage is ridiculous.

If you're blind guessing then you're playing the game wrong. Look at who people have voted for, the reasons they have given. Numerous people have made posts summarising the state of the game with feelings of how we think people are playing the game so far. To simply discard this whole phase of the game is ignorant and anti town.
 
My position has always been that we need to lynch, but throwing votes around willy-nilly is bloodthirsty.
snip
An educated guess is still a guess - putting the word educated in front of it is just an attempt to make it more valid - and it isn't.

First it's "willy-nilly is bad", then it's a guess with no chance of it being an educated guess. You contradict yourself in the very same post.

Pookie, you are panicking when the heat is on you, and throwing around accusations without wishing to associate your vote on anyone other than me.
 
We're heading toward deadlock, I suspect that's because none of those in the running to be lynched are scummy enough to convince the town to act. I'm reasonably confident that 2 out of 3 are town and I'm not really convinced by the third, as I said earlier, I've only voted the way I have as a least bad option.

So lets see if we can find a 4th option that 7 of us can agree on.

I propose that everyone presents an opinion on every other Doctor. This opinion will take the form of a rating based on a scale I've been using in my notes to gauge one persons judgement of another. Only the rating is required, but if you feel the need to justify your rating that's also welcome.

Broadly speaking, the rating is that your opinion of someone is that they are either Scum (S), Town (T) or you genuinely have no feeling either way and are Neutral (N). The rating also has a numerical component to measure the strength of your feeling from 1 to 5:

1 - You've not got much to go on but if 'neutral' wasn't an option and you were forced to get off the fence you'd choose this alignment
2 - You think this is probably their alignment
3 - You believe this is their alignment
4 - You're about as sure as you can be without having absolute confirmation.
5 - You know the alignment with absolute certainty. Generally you wouldn't want to state a '5' opinion of anyone in public particularly this early in the game as it reveals that you somehow have inside information.

So the full scale would be:
S5 - Definitely scum
S4
S3
S2
S1
N
T1
T2
T3
T4
T5 - Definitely town

If enough people take part in this then we should be able to analyse the results and hopefully find someone who has been given an 'N' rating or worse by 7 players. That person would then be good for lynching. If this gets some traction and people take part then those who abstain are going to look pretty guilty...

Here's my ratings (In order):
Egon - T3
iviv - T3
Pudney - T3
chriscubed - T3
Brabbinho - T2
Pookie Bear - T2
Fortyseven - S1
Leprechaun312 - S1
K1LLSW1TCH - S1
shorttricky S1
Psymonkee - S1
Shamikebab - S2

As you can tell I have no particularly strong scum reads but a lot of strong town reads...
 
I don't see there is anything in Pookie's actions to suggest he is scum. From my perspective you disagree with his tactics and that has garnered him a vote.

As I said 47 has been a little erratic, but he was a little naive in the last game. So I think at the minute it is a case of him learning the game. Thats not to say I won't be keeping an eye on him though.

Nothing there makes me want to vote for them more than you
 
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