Making a murderer - The Avery case (Spoilers)

[Felon]

She doesn't need to though, that's not what she's there for.

Yeah - I mean, technically all she has to do is demonstrate that some sort of procedural problem occurred, that could exonerate Avery on some sort of legal technicality. The problem is that just about every possible aspect of that has been tried and failed.

Secondly, her job would be far easier - if in her investigations she actually developed an alternate theory, backed by evidence - which would explain how Halbach died that wasn't caused by Avery, so far she hasn't been able to.

Why would Avery kill someone whilst he was awaiting a huge payout for wrongful imprisonment though? It just doesn't make sense.

I think there's only one person who can answer that, Steven Avery.

A simple explanation, is that maybe he was a complete halfwit, had no self control - wanted to rape, torture and kill a young woman, maybe he was so mentally messed up that no amount of money could keep him on the straight and narrow? Who knows.

 

[IvanDobskey]

I'm really on the fence with this. There is a lot of evidence pointing towards a possible setup. And the police had good reason to stitch him up with a big compensation payout looming.

But the Netflix show are obviously a little biased towards the conspiracy theory as it makes for a better show.

I'm guessing we will never know the truth on this one.

 

[Felon]

There's only one piece of forensic evidence that has any doubt cast on it - the bullet fragment found in the garage with Halbach's DNA on it, which came from Avery's rifle.

The doubt is the fact that the sample was tainted by the technicians own DNA when she processed the sample - however, this was openly admitted in open court by the technician herself, there was no evidence that anybody tried to cover it up. In her testimony she explains how she was supervising some trainees - when she made a mistake, an embarrassing silly mistake.

The alternate theory for the bullet is this;

• Police remove Avery's gun from their own evidence locker
• They fire a bullet from it
• They collect Halbach's DNA (from somewhere, after she'd been cremated)
• They transfer her DNA to the bullet
• They plant the bullet inside Avery's garage

It's pretty far fetched, especially when you consider all the other forensic evidence that points to Avery. For example the blood on the Rav 4 - nobody at any point anywhere, not even Zellner - has provided a better explanation for how Avery's blood got onto the Rav 4, than Avery smearing it there himself as he committed the crime.

 

[IvanDobskey]

They claim that bullet went through her skull though. Yet there is no sign of any bone in it. That is very suspicious.

 

[Felon]

They claim that bullet went through her skull though. Yet there is no sign of any bone in it. That is very suspicious.

Well to be fair to the lab technician, in her original testimony she didn't actually find anything visual on the bullet at all - so she washed the bullet in various solutions and reagents in order to harvest any biological material or DNA that might be there. In the trial, there were no questions asked about bone fragments, bone residue or any mention of bone in the original trial, so to go back now and say it's suspicious because no bone fragments were found - seems to be a straw man argument, because it wasn't raised at the time in any capacity whatsoever.

The fact Zellner found no bone fragments on the bullet in her so-called scientific tests, to me is meaningless - because the bullet was essentially washed clean in the original DNA testing by the crime lab, so it's totally useless to anybody now, in terms of harvesting any additional biological material.

Ask yourself this; If it was all a cover up and the bullet was planted - why not cover the damn thing in Halbach's blood so that not only her DNA was there - but the bullet was physically stained with her blood and biological material - if you're going to go to the effort of planting it, why not make 100% sure?

None of the planting theories add up at all.

 

[Musty Pie]

There's only one piece of forensic evidence that has any doubt cast on it - the bullet fragment found in the garage with Halbach's DNA on it, which came from Avery's rifle.

The doubt is the fact that the sample was tainted by the technicians own DNA when she processed the sample - however, this was openly admitted in open court by the technician herself, there was no evidence that anybody tried to cover it up. In her testimony she explains how she was supervising some trainees - when she made a mistake, an embarrassing silly mistake.

The alternate theory for the bullet is this;

• Police remove Avery's gun from their own evidence locker
• They fire a bullet from it
• They collect Halbach's DNA (from somewhere, after she'd been cremated)
• They transfer her DNA to the bullet
• They plant the bullet inside Avery's garage

It's pretty far fetched, especially when you consider all the other forensic evidence that points to Avery. For example the blood on the Rav 4 - nobody at any point anywhere, not even Zellner - has provided a better explanation for how Avery's blood got onto the Rav 4, than Avery smearing it there himself as he committed the crime.

Screeeech come on!!

They could have collected any old bullet: This firearm would have been fired on this properly so many times its impossible to count.I don't think anyone is assuming the events you depict above are the order the occurred in to back up the theory of planted DNA.

Its all still very odd though.

Stevens blood in the Rav is explainable, maybe not believable, but certainly explainable!

All the police needed to do was get some of his blood from somewhere, and we all know he claimed there was blood readily available in his trailer sink from his cut finger! Which also ties in with the break-in/shiv damage on his trailer door.

If Avery cooked this story up and damaged his trailer to further concrete this plot, and also made statements reference the blood being cleaned up in his sink that helps his timeline, hes a genius..... who forgot to get rid of his blood, and the car...

 

[dowie]

If you look at the time line.
At S Avery's trial they never mention the guy(truck driver) who told the cop in a gas station\shop about the car.
The guy told the cop where to find the car, as it was dumped on the side of the road right by Scot Tadych's place.

The cop never said anything about that in court. I wonder why?

Quite possibly because it didn’t happen, you were talking before about two text messages and them not being mentioned in court, that is what I was referring to as muddled.

 

[Irish_Tom]

I think the blood in the sink story is a bit far fetched.

However, I think it’s also far fetched to suggest that if they did so much to her in SA’s trailer, there wouldn’t be more DNA evidence found in there, even if he burnt the sheets, I would have expected fluids on the mattress, carpet, walls etc, even with a few days to clean up.

If they found traces of blood in the garage after SA and BD cleaned it up with bleach, you would have thought the same thing would be true in the trailer.

 

[Felon]

Screeeech come on!!

They could have collected any old bullet: This firearm would have been fired on this properly so many times its impossible to count.I don't think anyone is assuming the events you depict above are the order the occurred in to back up the theory of planted DNA.

Well you've got a very difficult job to do; You need to explain how Halbach's DNA found it's way onto the bullet.

The only way you can explain it, is that the police did it by transferring Halbach's DNA onto the bullet on purpose to frame him, this is a massive problem for reasons I've explained at least ten times;

If the police were planting DNA evidence, such as the bullet and the blood in the car - it implies that the police murdered Halbach. Then planted all of the evidence, including the body in the burn pit. You have to take that leap - there's no other plausible theory of how she died.

If somebody other than Steven Avery committed the murder, a third party (in your case the police) must have transported her body to Avery's burn pit, burnt a whole, entire human body - without anybody noticing, whilst they were all in, feet from Avery's trailer.

Ask yourself, honestly - which is the more likely and reasonable explanation?; All of the evidence was planted and framed by the police, probably colluding with others - or Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey murdered her and burnt her in his burn pit.

All the police needed to do was get some of his blood from somewhere, and we all know he claimed there was blood readily available in his trailer sink from his cut finger! Which also ties in with the break-in/shiv damage on his trailer door.

If Avery cooked this story up and damaged his trailer to further concrete this plot, and also made statements reference the blood being cleaned up in his sink that helps his timeline, hes a genius..... who forgot to get rid of his blood, and the car...

It's pretty much forensically impossible to lift dried up blood from somewhere like a sink, then transplant it onto a crime scene in the same way that it would come from a bleeding wound (Avery's hand) and also fool blood spatter analysts and forensic scientists.

EDIT;

Also - it wasn't just Avery's blood that was found in the Rav 4, they also found his DNA on the hood latch of the Rav 4 (interesting Brendan confessed that Avery opened the hood when they were disguising it) So whoever planted the DNA not only had Avery's blood - but also his skin cells, or other non-blood biological material, that could have been planted.

The only way your theory becomes plausible, is if you go into full-on conspiracy theory mode.

I think the blood in the sink story is a bit far fetched.

However, I think it’s also far fetched to suggest that if they did so much to her in SA’s trailer, there wouldn’t be more DNA evidence found in there, even if he burnt the sheets, I would have expected fluids on the mattress, carpet, walls etc, even with a few days to clean up.

If they found traces of blood in the garage after SA and BD cleaned it up with bleach, you would have thought the same thing would be true in the trailer.

The fact is, he had five days from Oct 31st, till November 5th to clean his trailer, he had the convenient use of burn barrels, a fire pit and an entire junk yard - right outside his doorstep, we simply do not know how much blood there was - where it went, what he disposed of/hid/altered/cleaned in those five days, it's impossible to know.

You could argue - why didn't he go back to the Rav 4 and clean up his own blood and Halbach's blood - maybe it's because he's a halfwit with an IQ of 70-80? Maybe he never thought of it? Maybe he was so busy cleaning up the trailer he forgot - all we can do is speculate.

 

[Irish_Tom]

The fact is, he had five days from Oct 31st, till November 5th to clean his trailer, he had the convenient use of burn barrels, a fire pit and an entire junk yard - right outside his doorstep, we simply do not know how much blood there was - where it went, what he disposed of/hid/altered/cleaned in those five days, it's impossible to know.

You could argue - why didn't he go back to the Rav 4 and clean up his own blood and Halbach's blood - maybe it's because he's a halfwit with an IQ of 70-80? Maybe he never thought of it? Maybe he was so busy cleaning up the trailer he forgot - all we can do is speculate.

Right, but this comes back to the 'criminal mastermind / stupid halfwit' paradox.

He's a criminal mastermind who was able to remove every last drop of bodily fluids from the trailer, but too stupid to clean off a couple of easy-to-see spots of blood from the car. Also, if he did clean up the blood in the garage he didn't do a very good job (as shown by the luminol test) yet he managed to keep a Dexter level of cleanliness in the bedroom…

Again, I'm not completely convinced either way, I'm just saying there's enough uncertainty so that it's not 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

 

[Felon]

Right, but this comes back to the 'criminal mastermind / stupid halfwit' paradox.

He's a criminal mastermind who was able to remove every last drop of bodily fluids from the trailer, but too stupid to clean off a couple of easy-to-see spots of blood from the car. Also, if he did clean up the blood in the garage he didn't do a very good job (as shown by the luminol test) yet he managed to keep a Dexter level of cleanliness in the bedroom…

Again, I'm not completely convinced either way, I'm just saying there's enough uncertainty so that it's not 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

I can't really disagree with that, it is a bit of a paradox. The only thing I'd say is that we simply don't know what was in the trailer and the extent of what needed to be cleaned up, Dassey confessed that they burnt all the bloodstained bedding on the fire, there aren't many other references to disposing of things from the trailer, so all we can really do is speculate on it.

Edit - remember, it wasn't just Avery's blood that was found in the car, it was also Avery's DNA that was found on the hood latch (probably skin cells) so if Avery didn't do it - somebody else not only planted his blood, but also managed to plant Avery's skin cells/saliva/semen or whatever, which is pretty difficult to imagine.

 

[ColdAsIce]

Transcript of the interrogation when Brendan is at School. Starts of completely different story from it ended up being. Don't know how you can think this statement is legit.

http://jenniferjslate.com/wp-conten...ranscript_at_Mishicot_High_School_2.27.06.pdf

I got off the bus at 3:45 and seen her jeep down at Steven's house. Then I went in my house
and played Playstation 2 for three hours and then I eat at 8:00 and I watch TV and then got a phone
call from Steven, if I wanted to come over to have a fire and I did and he·told me to bring the
golf cart and I did. So then we went driving around the yard and got to pick up the stuff around
the house. Then we dropped the seats by the fire and went to get the wood and the cabinet and then
went back to throw the seat on the fire and then we waited for it to go down and throw on the wood
and cabinet ThenIseen the toes before we throw the wood and cabinet on the fire. When we did
that he seen me that I seen the toes he told me not to say anything and he told me that he stabbed
her in the stomach in the pit and he took the knife and put it under the seat inher jeep. Is that
your statement Brendan?

WIEGERT: And you told me before that he said he did something else to her, you said
he tied her up and he stabbed her in the truck. Is that right?

BRENDAN: Yeah.

WIEGERT: Do you wanna add that to your statement? OK. FASSBENDER: What did
he use to tie her up with, did he say? BRENDAN: Rope
FASSBENDER: Rope

WIEGERT: Did he say anything about duct tape? BRENDAN:
WIEGERT: No.

(pause)

FASSBENDER: You told us that he talked to you about not talking and that he threatened you.
That would probably be a good thing to add to your statement if you'd like, specifically what he
said to you. ·

(pause)

WIEGERT: You also told us that he said she was pretty. Do you wanna add that in the
statement? Yes or no?

BRENDAN: Yes.

 

[Musty Pie]

They also found his DNA on the hood latch of the Rav 4 (interesting Brendan confessed that Avery opened the hood when they were disguising it) So whoever planted the DNA not only had Avery's blood - but also his skin cells, or other non-blood biological material, that could have been planted.

I agree, the hood latch DNA is odd. The things that really makes me question this part, is that no matter, under what testing on a Rav4 they tried, did the manage to get a sample of DNA from it to test when trying to reconstruct how possible this is..

Furthermore the statement about him opening the Hoodlatch (IMO) is one of the most coerced parts of the interview...

 

[Musty Pie]

oops dbl post

 

[Felon]

Transcript of the interrogation when Brendan is at School. Starts of completely different story from it ended up being. Don't know how you can think this statement is legit.

http://jenniferjslate.com/wp-conten...ranscript_at_Mishicot_High_School_2.27.06.pdf

If you selectively quote and pick bits from the statements - it's easy to make it look like there are inconsistencies.

The problem is - that's not how a statement comes out is it, it takes a lot of time and some pressure to get the information out of him, if you read or watch them from end to end it's much more likely that he's telling the truth;

And that's before it's pointed out, that a large amount of information that comes out of Brendan's statements matches up with the crime scene. Especially concerning information that nobody knew at the time;

• Brendan confesses that Steven shot her in the head; Cause of death was a gunshot to the head (nobody knew this at the time)
• Brendan explains how Steven had a cut on his hand; Blood from Steven on the Rav 4
• Brendan explains why Halbach's blood is in the back of the Rav 4: Steven planned to drive her down there in the back and throw her in the quarry, changing his mind at the last minute - removing her and burning her instead (nobody knew this, and detectives were puzzled as to why she was burnt outside the trailer, yet her blood was in the back of her own Rav 4)
• Brendan explains how he raped her; Why provide such lurid detail on things he didn't do?
• Brendan explains how Steven planned it; Days before Brendan says how Steven planned to murder "the girl from Autotrader"

Above, are just some of the detailed things that came out of Brendan that at that time weren't widely known - which aligned with the facts on the ground. Brendan doesn't simply confess and provide a load nonsense just to shut the officers up - he provides relevant information that was hard to know, that somehow managed to be correct.

Brendan also admitted being there and playing a part to his own mother, when he had a telephone conversation with her - so are people going to argue that his own mother was coercing him to make it up too?

(Dassey / Mother phone conversation; page 2)
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...0eb197ad/1452473263584/dassey_mom_5_13_06.pdf

So not only does he confess to the murder three times with detectives, he also admits playing a part to his mother,

Furthermore - his younger nephew made a statement saying how Brendan had mentioned about the bones in the burn pit, however she later said in court she made it up, which is funny - because it seems that literally everybody is making everything up...

(Kayla Dassey's statement)
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...dcc2fdf40f36b9acaf53f/1453181999543/kayla.jpg

I have my own theory, and it's a gut feeling - I don't have any evidence to back it up. But I think the Avery family were more involved than just Steven and Brendan, I think some or all of them potentially know and I think some of the reasons why Brendan pleaded not guilty and saying he made it all up, along with Kaylee saying she made it all up - was because the family closed ranks and decided to try and protect each other.

The only leeway I'll give for Brendan, is that his initial lawyer (Ken Lachinsky) threw him under a bus, when he potentially should have instructed Brendan to plead guilty and use the guilty plea in exchange for mitigation. I think Brendan potentially got a bad deal on the basis that I think he was terrified of Steven Avery, there are numerous allegations that Steven Avery used to sexually assault Brendan and some of the others. I think potentially - that there might be a lot more that Brendan didn't get out, which could have been put to much better use, if his initial legal team didn't throw him under the bus...

But those are just my personal thoughts..

I agree, the hood latch DNA is odd. The things that really makes me question this part, is that no matter, under what testing on a Rav4 they tried, did the manage to get a sample of DNA from it to test when trying to reconstruct how possible this is..

Furthermore the statement about him opening the Hoodlatch (IMO) is one of the most coerced parts of the interview...

If you're talking about the reconstruction from series 2, I'd outright reject any of the so called 'science' being presented there, a large amount of what's going on with Zellner's team is cargo-cult science and can't be trusted.

 

[ColdAsIce]

I just cannot trust these interrogations. First link I post is from 27/02/06 at his High School and then they later go to the Police station and go through the statement again. Similar to above. Pretty much nothing changes. Then you go another 2 days and they interview Brendan again. This time they start playing the "we know your lying" card. "We already know the truth" etc.

http://jenniferjslate.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/InterviewTranscript_3.1.06.pdf

FASSBENDER: and ah, I kinda call it, it's a sense to breathe being in a way, and I'll just
let you talk to us a little and um, and, and we've had also a chance for two days now to look at
what you said and, and listen to the to tapes a little and stuff like that and, and we look at that
and we say, well you know, Brendan gave us, honestly gave us this information, this information and
that information, maybe I'llcall them dots or whatever and some of the dots when we look at it say
well, Ithink we need some matching up here, just a little tightening up or something. We, we feel
that, that maybe,Ithink Mark andIboth feel that maybe there's a, some more that you could tell
us, um, that you may have held back for whatever reasons and Iwanna assure you that Mark and Iboth
are inyour corner, we're on your side, and you did tell us yourself that one of the reasons you
hadn't come forward yet was because you're afraid, you're scared, and, and one of the reasons you
were scared was that you would be implicated in this, or people would say that you helped or did
this (Brendan nods "yes")

BRENDAN: mm huh. (nods "yes")

FASSBENDER: OK, and that you might get arrested and stuff like that. OK? And we understand
that. One of the best ways to, ta prove to us or more importantly, you know, the courts and stuff
is that you tell the whole truth, don't leave anything out, don't make anything up because you're
trying to cover something up, a Jittle, um, and even if those statements are against your own
interest, you know what Imean, that, then makes you might, i-it might make you look
a little bad or make you look like you were more involved than you wanna be, aah, looked at, wn,
it'shard to do but it's good from that vantage point to say hey, there'sno doubt you're telling the
truth because you've now given the whole story you've even given points where it didn't look real
good for you either, an, and Idon't know if!, if you,your understanding what I'm saying (Brendan
nods "yes")

BRENDAN: mm huh. (nods "yes")

FASSBENDER: and, and that's why we kinda came here, to let you talk a little, maybe get
some stuff off your mind or chest if you need to and then to tell us the whole truth, to take us
through this whole thing that happened on Monday, not leaving anything out, not adding anything in,
because if our guy looked at, looked at the tapes, looked at the notes, it's real obvious there's
some places where some things were left out or maybe changed just a bit ta, to maybe lookin' at
yourself to protect yourself a little. Um, from what I'm seeing, even if I filled those in, I'm
thinkin' you're aU right. OK, you don't have to worry about things. Um, w, were there for ya, um,
and I, and, and we know what Steven did an, and, and we know kinda what happened to you when he
did, we just need to hear the whole story from you. As soon as we get that and we're comfortable
with that, I think you're gonna be a lot more comfortable with that. It's going to be a lot easier
on you down the road, ah, if this goes to trial and stuff like that. We need to know that, because
it's probably going to come out. Think of Steven for a second,
Steven is already starting to say some things and eventually he is gonna potentially lay some crap
on you and try and make it look like you are the bad person here. Um, and we don't want that,






STA


-------------


CALUMET COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT


Complaint No.
05-0157-955


Page
541
File Number

we want everything out in front so we can say yeah we knew that Steven. He told us that. So, ya,
you know that you get my drift. I'm a, I know Mark has some, so I'm just going to give you an
opportunity to talk to us now and, and kinda fill in those gaps for us. (Brendan nods ''yes")

WIEGERT: Honesty here Brendan is the thing that's gonna help you. OK, no matter what you did, we
can work through that. OK. We can't make any promises but we'll stand behind you no matter what you
did. OK. Because you're being the good guy here. You're the one that's saying you know what? Maybe
I made some mistakes but here's whatIdid. The other guy involved in this doesn't want to help
himself. All he wants to do is blame everybody else. OK. And by you talking with us, it's, it's
helping you. OK? Because the honest person is the one who's gonna get a better deal out of
everything. You know how that works. (Brendan nods "yes")

BRENDAN: mm hm. (nods ''yes")

WIEGERT: You know. Honesty is the only thing that will set you free. Right? And we
know, like Tom said we know, we reviewed those tapes. We know there's some things you left out and
we know there's some things that maybe weren't quite correct that you told us. OK. We've done,
we've been investigating this a long time. We pretty much know everything that's why we're to
talking to you again today. We really need you to be honest this time with everything, OK. If, in
fact, you did somethings, which we believe, somethings may have happened that you didn't wanna tell
us about. It's OK. As long as you can, as long as you be honest with us, it's OK. If you lie about
it that's gonna be problems. OK. Does that sound fair? (Brendan nods "yes")

Very hard to trust the whole interrogation when the story completely flips.

 

[Felon]

Then you go another 2 days and they interview Brendan again. This time they start playing the "we know your lying" card. "We already know the truth"

Of course they do, that's what detectives do. He places himself at the scene at the same time Teresa is there, right before she disappears, close to where her charred remains and her vehicle are found - what do you expect the police to do?;

Cops; Were you there Brendan?
Brendan; No
Cops; Did you kill her Brendan?
Brendan?; No
Cops; Did Steven Kill her Brendan?
Brendan? No
Cops: OK BRENDAN, THANKS YOU CAN GO, CASE CLOSED.

Interrogations don't work like that, it takes time and persuasion and rapport to get someone like Brendan to talk, and the moment he gives out one piece of information - more and more bits follow, because once he starts talking he's getting it off his chest.

You still (and in fact nobody) has made any attempt to rebut how the information Brendan gave turned out to align with the crime scene, specific details that are relevant - and come from him and him only. How do you explain that?

 

[ColdAsIce]

Of course they do, that's what detectives do. He places himself at the scene at the same time Teresa is there, right before she disappears, close to where her charred remains and her vehicle are found - what do you expect the police to do?;



Interrogations don't work like that, it takes time and persuasion and rapport to get someone like Brendan to talk, and the moment he gives out one piece of information - more and more bits follow, because once he starts talking he's getting it off his chest.

You still (and in fact nobody) has made any attempt to rebut how the information Brendan gave turned out to align with the crime scene, specific details that are relevant - and come from him and him only. How do you explain that?

My biggest problems with the interrogations are they feed him to much stuff. When they get frustrated with his answers. Push and push until he gives them answers they have been prodding and leading him onto.

Interesting that Teresa had a tattoo on her stomach but they are unable to get Brendan to confirm this. Despite him having sex with her (she was naked on the bed apparently) and then later helping to dump her body in the burn bit. (again naked)

My problem with the case is just so many mistakes and awful handling by the Police make it hard to say the trial was fair. Especially in the case of Brendan.

 

[Felon]

My biggest problems with the interrogations are they feed him to much stuff. When they get frustrated with his answers. Push and push until he gives them answers they have been prodding and leading him onto.

Interesting that Teresa had a tattoo on her stomach but they are unable to get Brendan to confirm this. Despite him having sex with her (she was naked on the bed apparently) and then later helping to dump her body in the burn bit. (again naked)

My problem with the case is just so many mistakes and awful handling by the Police make it hard to say the trial was fair. Especially in the case of Brendan.

It's not good enough, it's not enough to meet the burden of proof required; To establish that the confession was coerced (both to the police three times, and his own mother), the evidence was planted, Avery is innocent and a third party or the police murdered Halbach or came across her body by sheer chance, the dots simply do not line up. Any attempt to make them lineup relies on insane amounts of conspiracy theorist faith, and insane ideas about how a large pile of forensic, physical and circumstantial evidence, has all been planted by persons totally unknown, who left no trace.

And from my post above, I repeat;

You still (and in fact nobody) has made any attempt to rebut how the information Brendan gave turned out to align with the crime scene, specific details that are relevant - and come from him and him only. How do you explain that?

In order to void Dassey's confession; you have to be able to conclusively explain, how the information he gave which turned out to be correct - is in fact lies, how can it all be lies when it's full of useful details that weren't known by anyone, but aligned with the scene?

Until you can do that, you're going to get nowhere saying his confession was coerced.

 

[esoteric]

If the police were planting DNA evidence, such as the bullet and the blood in the car - it implies that the police murdered Halbach. Then planted all of the evidence, including the body in the burn pit. You have to take that leap - there's no other plausible theory of how she died.

Why do you keep insisting that if police planted evidence then the only outcome is that they must have killed her? that isn't true and I can only surmise it's a willingly ignorant statement to keep your guilty opinion and set up a straw man so you avoid addressing the many big fat elephants about the case, 99% of which is evidence that doesn't exist. I've seen so many of your replies that answer a question with a question or a statement of evidence that we know to be false like you are pulling the wool over your own eyes.

What is your hang up about coming to the realization that most of the world has come to which is that there is good evidence that suggests Steven Avery may be innocent.

If you're talking about the reconstruction from series 2, I'd outright reject any of the so called 'science' being presented there, a large amount of what's going on with Zellner's team is cargo-cult science and can't be trusted.

This is just staggeringly ignorant and just shows that no amount of evidence will be good enough for you and everyone who is still debating you trying to make you understand another way, to see what the rest of us see is just wasting their time on you.

As for question;

You still (and in fact nobody) has made any attempt to rebut how the information Brendan gave turned out to align with the crime scene, specific details that are relevant - and come from him and him only. How do you explain that?

I answered in the other thread last week or 2 weeks ago. In short the information was made to fit and if you want it to be true then it only incriminates Brendan as the killer, because only he said it as you say yourself and because only Brendan's words incriminate Steven as there is no evidence to backup Brendan's statements that Steve was involved. That the blood and crime scene were scrubbed afterwards and Teresa's clothes burned is just speculative and a theory and we should not be incarcerating people on speculation or theories.