Malaysia Grand Prix 2012, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/20

[sunama]

This is funny...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17550940

have to agree

In that video, Vettel has the appearance of a bad boy - scruffy hair, unshaven face, calling people names.

In the video, it looks as if he is holding a cigarette in one hand, alcoholic beverage in the other hand and has a couple of ladies, waiting in the wings, who he intends to fool around with later...if he hasn't passed out from excessive alcohol intake.

If he was at McLaren, he'd definitely get a letter in his inbox, stating that he needs to clean up or he will get a warning.

 

[sunama]

By gradually understanding how to set the car up, and applying all this knowledge to a refined design over the winter, their 2012 car is MUCH better - competing for points rather than falling back into the clutches of the back 3 teams. I would argue that Williams have made the most of any team over the winter.

Are you sure they understood that car at all? From what I can see, they radically changed the design and as luck would have it, they've come up with a better car than last time. Visually, that small back end has gone and it appears that they have reverted to a more traditional design, being used by other teams.

 

[englishpremier]

its already feeling like two weeks too long until the next race

It's a 3 week gap in total

I wish they just did the calendar by region.

 

[FrankJH]

It's a 3 week gap in total

I wish they just did the calendar by region.

well you cant really have a gp the day after the last one now can you

(bad week here, just wanted a laugh)

 

[timbob]

Are you sure they understood that car at all? From what I can see, they radically changed the design and as luck would have it, they've come up with a better car than last time. Visually, that small back end has gone and it appears that they have reverted to a more traditional design, being used by other teams.

The small back end, low-profile gearbox, and radically angled driveshafts are all still there

 

[Mr Men]

Many of those in positions of power i.e. the designers, lead engineers, strategists etc., weren't Italian. This is my point - most of the key personnel behind Ferrari's early 2000s success are gone. I obviously never meant that most of their 900(?) factory employees were British or German - I thought that would be obvious to most?

I don't see why the nationality matters then? Are Brawn and MS doing great at Merc just cause they are British and German?

 

[timbob]

I don't see why the nationality matters then? Are Brawn and MS doing great at Merc just cause they are British and German?

They're not, quite obviously - this nitpicking is getting tiresome, quite frankly. Perhaps I should have just put an "etc" after my Brits/Germans??

The point is that the key people behind Ferrari's success in the early 2000s (be they English, German, French, South African, Cantonese or whatever else...!!!) are gone. Most of the key positions are now filled by Italians, which historically has proven to be a negative influence on Ferrari's performance in F1.

 

[sunama]

Traditionally, the best engineers are German or British.
As an example, many times on Top Gear, I've seen the presenters comment that the quality of workmanship on the Ferrari roadcars is a little poor. While the German built cars (in the same price bracket) are finished to the nth degree of quality.

Now, where the Italians win, is beauty. You only have to look at the motorbikes and sportscars to know that the Germans, the Brits and Japs can't create something as beautiful as what the Italians routinely make.

Unfortunately in F1, beauty counts for nothing. Performance and fast lap times are everything. So, in theory, the Germans and British should be able to create something which runs more reliably and is faster.

Of cousre, this is all theory. In practise, the Ferrari team (consisting of many Italians), have won plenty of races and titles. Probably more than the Germans or the Brits.

 

[JRS]

Of cousre, this is all theory. In practise, the Ferrari team (consisting of many Italians), have won plenty of races and titles. Probably more than the Germans or the Brits.

In fairness to all the British garagistes that ever were, Ferrari have been around a bit longer so you'd kind of hope that they'd won more....

 

[Mr Men]

Most of the key positions are now filled by Italians, which historically has proven to be a negative influence on Ferrari's performance in F1.

has it? Ferrari went 18 years between WCC titles, including having the death of Enzo in that period and lots of turmoil, Now McLaren's last WCC was 1998, do they have too many Brits in top positions or is it just easy to say Ferrari are too Italian when they are not winning?

During those hard years Ferrari even opened a British based facility for Bernard, didn't seem to work just because he was British though Ferrari have lost a lot of valuable team members and they are going to be a loss but their nationality is not the issue IMO.

F1 is also very different now compared to back then, Ferrari are no longer testing all day long at Fiorano, engines are frozen, revs limited, gearboxes limited, rules much tighter and the grid a whole lot closer due to the rules and limits imposed to the days of Brawn etc.

 

[JRS]

has it? Ferrari went 18 years between WCC titles, including having the death of Enzo in that period and lots of turmoil

16 years between Constructors championships by my count Mr Men. 1983 to 1999.

 

[Mr Men]

ooops yeah

 

[timbob]

has it? Ferrari went 18 years between WCC titles, including having the death of Enzo in that period and lots of turmoil, Now McLaren's last WCC was 1998, do they have too many Brits in top positions or is it just easy to say Ferrari are too Italian when they are not winning?

During those hard years Ferrari even opened a British based facility for Bernard, didn't seem to work just because he was British though Ferrari have lost a lot of valuable team members and they are going to be a loss but their nationality is not the issue IMO.

You're quite right about McLaren's last WCC, but I reckon WDCs are indicative of a team's overall performance too - and they won one of those only a few years ago, and have been there or thereabouts for the last 5 years.

Perhaps it is easy to say they're too Italian when they're not winning, but the team has gradually been going backwards since 2008, when Domenicali took over from Todt - who was the best thing to happen to the team since the 1970s when they last won a title. IMO, without someone like Todt at the helm organising and drawing together those valuable team members, I think Ferrari are destined to slide back towards the midfield again over the next few seasons.

They've arguably been making bad cars for 3 years now - Raikkonen and Alonso have been flattering their steeds since 2008. You only have to look how Fisichella (who was no slouch) fared when he switched mid-season to see how difficult their 2009 car was to drive.

 

[Mr Men]

the team has gradually been going backwards since 2008, when Domenicali took over from Todt - who was the best thing to happen to the team since the 1970s when they last won a title. IMO, without someone like Todt at the helm organising and drawing together those valuable team members, I think Ferrari are destined to slide back towards the midfield again over the next few seasons.
.

I totally agree about Todt he seems very much overlooked when it comes to the dream team by many, and I don't think Domenicali should be in the position he is either, The problem is who else do they get, only one that springs to mind is Flavio and that would open up a whole can of worms

 

[sunama]

Now McLaren's last WCC was 1998, do they have too many Brits in top positions or is it just easy to say Ferrari are too Italian when they are not winning?

What about 2007?
McLaren did have a very competitive package that year. Their weakness was Ron Denis's inability to manage Alonso, otherwise they'd have won the the WCC and WDC titles.

Points wise (on-track) they did actually win the WCC (but for the shenanigans, which went on).

They also won the WDC title in 2008.

2009 was a terrible year.
In 2010 they finished 2nd in the Constructors race.
In 2011, they had a driver who finished in 2nd place and also finished 2nd in the Constructors race.

McLaren have done reasonably well. It just so happens that RBR have been damn good during that time. In 2012, now that RBR are out of the way (their car is currently not so great), McLaren now have the best car and are odds on to win both titles.

 

[Weebull]

They are currently 7th place in the championship, which isn't particularly great. I know that Maldo has lost some points, but they aren't in a great position.

Understatement much? Maldonado has missed out on more points than Williams as a team managed in the whole of 2011.

I find it odd that you use the standings to judge how well Williams are doing, considering that if you went by them, Ferrari would apparently have a lot less to worry about than we know they do. Hell, Alonso's clearly going to win the title, right?

 

[sunama]

The problem is who else do they get, only one that springs to mind is Flavio and that would open up a whole can of worms

I would love it if Flavio was in charge of Ferrari.
The last time he and Alonso were together, they won a couple of races (in not a great car). Of course one of those races was won illegally...but hey ho.

MSc won his first 2 titles under Flavio.
And Alonso was the won who broke Ferrari's 5 year deadlock, again under Flavio.

Flavio has a great track record.

 

[Mr Men]

But they never won it in 2007 and I don't think they had enough points to win it even if they were not excluded for cheating, so no I don't think they can claim 2007 as anything good in their history

 

[Mr Men]

Flavio has a great track record.

he does indeed, but crashgate has really impaired that for him, would be fun on the Ferrari forums for the reaction though

 

[englishpremier]

Having Flavio back would be good fun.

All this talk of WDCs it's worth remembering that the WDC is worth nothing to the teams. It's all about the WCC that is what they compete for, that is what they get paid for. The WDC is an overblown side show.