Soldato
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 15,649
- Location
- The land of milk & beans
Malaysia Grand Prix 2012, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/20
- Thread starter Duke
- Start date
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Nov 2002
- Posts
- 7,708
- Location
- Under the Hill
For a team like Ferrari with a clear no 2 driver, would it not make sense to have an in season dev car (Massa) and the championship car with successful updates only.
I'd be surprised if Ferrari produce a B spec car this year with "standard" pull rod suspension. There's no inherent disadvantage to pull rods, it's really only packaging and the resultant aero benefits that make a team decide one way or the other. Red Bull have been running pull rod suspension (albeit on the rear) since 2009 - and I didn't see them hurriedly redesigning mid season... 
I would expect the F2012 to be pretty slow for the remainder of the season whilst Ferrari gather data and then for them to produce an F2013 (also front pull rods) that works much better. Much in the same way that Williams tried their low gearbox concept last year, struggled to understand how to set the car up, but gathered a year's worth of valuable data, then took that data to do it properly this year - and look where they are now.
My person opinion is now that the 1996-2004 Ferrari team personnel (mostly Brits and Germans) have either left or are gradually leaving, Ferrari are heading back to an early 90s period in the doldrums. They've seemed more Italian in their approach over the last couple of years, and whilst this is good viewing/drama for us, it could be argued that it's not particularly conducive for building quick racing cars
I would expect the F2012 to be pretty slow for the remainder of the season whilst Ferrari gather data and then for them to produce an F2013 (also front pull rods) that works much better. Much in the same way that Williams tried their low gearbox concept last year, struggled to understand how to set the car up, but gathered a year's worth of valuable data, then took that data to do it properly this year - and look where they are now.
My person opinion is now that the 1996-2004 Ferrari team personnel (mostly Brits and Germans) have either left or are gradually leaving, Ferrari are heading back to an early 90s period in the doldrums. They've seemed more Italian in their approach over the last couple of years, and whilst this is good viewing/drama for us, it could be argued that it's not particularly conducive for building quick racing cars
Yup, they ATTACK Youtube and take loads of old videos down, yet dont supply them either. Maybe i like watching the German GP from 1998? Yet FOM have got so many videos of races taken down, and dont supply me with an alternative. Its almost as if they DONT want us watching the sport.
They are currently 7th place in the championship, which isn't particularly great. I know that Maldo has lost some points, but they aren't in a great position.
Williams do not have the high profile following that Ferrari have. Ferrari Tifossi are impatient. The Italians in general, are impatient. You only have to look at how often they sack football managers. Spending a year, gathering data, to maybe create a car which might be able to compete for wins next year, isn't good enough.
In saying all of the above, writing off this year, is one option and IMO is probably the right thing to do. They could build a new car, but they will need a few months of further testing to start getting the most out of it, by which time the McLaren boys will be out-of-sight. By this time, unless Alonso has absolutely the best car and then wins 7 races in a row (or similar), this year is wasted.
Ferrari's problem (if this is the right word) is Alonso himself. The Italian media/fans know that they have the best driver in the World. So, when they produce a car which isn't winning, fingers (which would normally point at the driver (Massa is getting this right now)), are pointed directly to the technical team and management. And normally, when results are not forthcoming, managers tend to get fired.
I was quite surprised last year when they replaced Aldo Costa with Pat Fry. Pat Fry doesn't have great credentials. In fact, after leaving McLaren in 2010, McLaren appear to have gone form strength to strength (I know this is probably just a coincidence). I actually don't believe that Fry will be with Ferrari for long, as he is turning into a bit of a disaster.
LIke the music industry 10 years ago, they are leaving the public no option other than to download videos illegally.
I'm sure (like the music industry), they will catch on and in 5-10 years, will start making online videos available for the public to view.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 46,286
Not if you want to win the constructors championship too.
do thy stand even a slight chance with Massa in the car anyway?
Both RBR's and McLaren's are much more likely to finish ahead of Massa whatever the conditions in majority of races - so while Alonso may well get the odd great result in freakish conditions its not going to happen regularly enough over a 19/20 race season to compete in WCC (given that even if Alonso wins, a 4th & 5th place result gets practically same amount of constructor points)
yea i bet they could earn a fair wedge of cashe from advertising revenues aswell if they got youtube partner status and it wouldnt even cost them the bandwidth
But realistically, are Ferrari even in the position to think about winning the Constructors title?
McLaren are looking decent and given that they have 2 strong drivers, winning the Constructors title is going to be mighty difficult, even if Alonso were to win the Drivers title.
My person opinion is now that the 1996-2004 Ferrari team personnel (mostly Brits and Germans) have either left or are gradually leaving, Ferrari are heading back to an early 90s period in the doldrums. They've seemed more Italian in their approach over the last couple of years, and whilst this is good viewing/drama for us, it could be argued that it's not particularly conducive for building quick racing cars
Ferrari was never mostly Brits and Germans in those years. Brawn and Stepney and MS who else? they has something like 900 employees back then. How about Todt, Byrne and Martinelli?
Soldato
- Joined
- 15 Feb 2003
- Posts
- 10,140
- Location
- Europe
They had a mixture: French, South African, Italian, German, British, Canadian etc..
Soldato
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 15,649
- Location
- The land of milk & beans
*Wrong thread - meant to put it in off topic*
its already feeling like two weeks too long until the next race
At least the next two are back to back like the first two
Gurken is officially added to the EddScott motoring abuse repertoire.
My point is that by spending a year with a car that didn't work, they were able to understand it. I remember early during the 2011 season, Williams were saying "We can't set the car up. It understeers on corner entry [for example], so we apply the usual tried and tested setup fixes, but it makes the problem worse". By gradually understanding how to set the car up, and applying all this knowledge to a refined design over the winter, their 2012 car is MUCH better - competing for points rather than falling back into the clutches of the back 3 teams. I would argue that Williams have made the most of any team over the winter.
Many of those in positions of power i.e. the designers, lead engineers, strategists etc., weren't Italian. This is my point - most of the key personnel behind Ferrari's early 2000s success are gone. I obviously never meant that most of their 900(?) factory employees were British or German - I thought that would be obvious to most?