Hopefully in 2013 when the cars move to more ground effect for downforce than wings they wont need DRS to get closer to each other.
Malaysian Grand Prix 2011, Sepang International Circuit - Race 2/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
Its not fair because it artificially gives one car an advantage and keeps that advantage untill they break. In no way is it fair. Backed up by some top f1 drivers past and present.
What they need to do is sort the issues out which are.
To much aero downforce, not enough mechanical grip, not enough engine power. The real issues can be easily solved if they wish. Without making the sport a sit com. It has no place in f1 and never will, the sooner it's abandoned the better.
What they need to do is sort the issues out which are.
To much aero downforce, not enough mechanical grip, not enough engine power. The real issues can be easily solved if they wish. Without making the sport a sit com. It has no place in f1 and never will, the sooner it's abandoned the better.
The main problem is this huge dependence on aerodynamic downforce. Given that teams have collectively spent £billions over the years to reach the stage they have now, it is highly unlikely that the powers that be will simply abandon the advanced aerodynamics that 2011 cars are now equipped with.
It simply isn't going to happen any time in the near future.
The best we can hope for is trick pieces (like DRS/KERS/tyres which degrade quickly), to spice up the racing.
If I had a choice between having DRS and no DRS...I would pick DRS every-time, if only to avoid the situation we saw last year in Abu Dhabi, where Alonso who was (quite possibly 1-3s/lap) faster than the car in front, didn't even come close to an overtake.
It is happening and has happened before, they are introducing ground effect. Lots of inventions have been throw out the rule book and everytime they change wing size and angles they have to re do the aero.
Drs is not fair and as such has no place in any sport let alone f1
Drs is not fair and as such has no place in any sport let alone f1
Acidhell, year on year rule changes are made, in order to reduce cornering speeds (safety reasons). Yet...for some strange reason, in 2010, we saw a situation like that in Abu Dhabi, with Alonso and Petrov (and Webber as well, who was in the fastest car on the track, unable to overtake).
Given the above, do you honestly believe that the ground effect is going to make any perceivable difference to the distance a driver behind can get to the driver in front, during cornering?
What ground effect will do is prevent the teams from moving even further with their dependency on aero. It won't reverses the aerodynamic dependency. It will merely stem the flow for a few months.
My belief is that even if they completely got rid of the front and rear wings, it would make no difference at all the problems we are currently facing. The moncoque of the car itself is producing so much downforce now, it's mind-boggling.
Last year is actually a very good example. The wing sizes were significantly reduced. Did it make any difference to aerodynamic dependency? Not one bit. Abu Dhabit is testament to this.
What happens year-on-year is that the FIA changes the rules, to reduce speeds (on safety grounds) and by the start of the season, most of the speed which was (theoretically lost, due to the rule changes) is regained.
For all the inventions which the FIA have banned, we are still in a situation where the driver behind cannot get close to the driver in front unless he is a few seconds per lap faster. Last week, we saw Button, who was quite obviously faster than Massa, unable to make an overtaking move on Massa. And when he finally did, it was deemed illegal!
I can see how F1 purists may see DRS (or even KERS) as going against the tradition of F1, but times have changed. I was watching the Senna movie and in the last 20 years, the entire set-up of F1 has changed. It is very very unlikely we will ever see the kind of racing which we witnessed all those years ago. Safety is now a major factor (we are currently in the midst of the longest duration for which we have not had an F1 fatality) and while this is in place, big powerful engines (with possibly, higher straight line speeds) just aren't ever going to make a return.
In 2011, KERS and DRS, is the only way we are going to spice up racing. Oh... and if Bernie gets his way - the fake rain
Embrace the new rules/regs/innovations and accept that F1 is not what it was 20-odd years ago.
Yes because with ground effect will come a reduction in front and rear wing to compensate for increased downforce from the ground effect, meaning less dirty air. CIA could if they so wish put strict size limits on that would reduce aero completely.
No idea why you are including kers, no one has a problem with that in a fairness sense.
There's no point in spice if its fake, I would rather see racing and not a wrestling type event.
No idea why you are including kers, no one has a problem with that in a fairness sense.
There's no point in spice if its fake, I would rather see racing and not a wrestling type event.
Caporegime
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The point is though, I guess, that its a way to artificially drop the pace, but that the by product is if you push hard to overtake the guy infront of you, largely due to the dirty air, rubbish downforce, sliding more, locking up more as you're trying to gain with less traction in corners, you're not slowing cars down, you're excessively punishing those trying to overtake rather than those cars who are steady and their rear wing is making all the work for the driver behind.
You work your butt off, get past the guy infront, but to do so you've hurt your tyres FAR more, and in doing so you make an extra pit and end up further back than if you just cruised around behind the guy infront.
We saw last year early on, was it Webber and Hamilton having a great race, pitting on the idea that everyones tyres would CONTINUE to degrade, so their pit would be worthwhile. Either the guys who didn't pit needed their tyres to continue to degrade essentially EVERY lap so they are FORCED to pit, or for the difference between bad/good condition to be a gap that means an extra pitstop and more "racing" doesn't hurt you over the length of the race.
When tyres drop off, but then level off and stay at that level for the whole race, and its not that slow, then someone who steers clear of traffic and doesn't really try to move up the field has a huge advantage.
Basically, end of the day the rules are trying to induce MORE overtaking, and they should, we want a closer grid with more ability to overtake with less cost to the car.
Then you have the issue that, one car dropping 3 seconds off the race pace to maintain tyres has insane aero, like RBS, and other cars are pushing the limit to keep up. Is it fair a better car has an advantage, yes, but not when they are cheating..... skirt around the issue but RBS are, though in previous years thats meant less tyre wear, this one seemed worse in the first race. Were those the "precooked" tyres they did in qualifying though, maybe, so maybe giving them a heating cycle was actually bad for them as their others sets didn't have that issue yet the heated cycle/avoiding wear at the start seemed to backfire.
Yup, I agree, the car infront due to dirty air seems to have gained a massive advantage. Years ago it was still harder to be behind another car up to a certain distance then slipstream was a clear advantage, that was "unfair" just as much as DRS is. Its only seeking to restore the old situation of slipstream working rather than being non existant.
THing is, lets say Hamilton overtook Vettel and DRS was a large component of that, next lap around, its Vettel who can use DRS to get Vettel. It might not be the best way, but as I said, its only really seeking to restore the "natural balance" before dozens of years of rule changes made the air behind a car so hard to drive in.
Have the teams purposefully been making both as good a rear wing as they could while also making the air as bad as possible for the team behind, probably. It evens up and everyone can use it, just not at the same time.
Ultimately we need to hit a point where slipstreaming works again, properly, and tyres give you two options significantly slower, or pit and having incredible gains. Drivers shouldn't be punished for driving fast, trying to overtake, trying to damn well race.
I expect the Red Bull to be 1-2, but not by 1.6 seconds, first/second practice is generally useless in terms of outright pace and even Webbers time will be utterly trounced before qualifying,
Just for fun I worked out the 107% rule based on that session, neither HRT would've made it, surprised?
Just for fun I worked out the 107% rule based on that session, neither HRT would've made it, surprised?
Well, at least in 2nd practise, the McLaren were in the same ball-park as the RBR. Otherwise, I would've been depressed. This would've been 1992/1993 all over again.
I am worried about Ferrari though. If Australia was a freak result, I expected a strong showing, but this hasn't happened yet. Fingers crossed that they do better in qualifying and the race.
I am worried about Ferrari though. If Australia was a freak result, I expected a strong showing, but this hasn't happened yet. Fingers crossed that they do better in qualifying and the race.
I expect the Red Bull to be 1-2, but not by 1.6 seconds, first/second practice is generally useless in terms of outright pace and even Webbers time will be utterly trounced before qualifying,
Just for fun I worked out the 107% rule based on that session, neither HRT would've made it, surprised?
Karthikeyen scraped into 107% for the second session though, although I expect them to struggle again unless qualifying is wet.
Soldato
Well, it's not looking good but I'll give my usual "Alonso has it in the bag" statement...
If it's dry, I can't see the top teams wanting HRT racing. They'll go out to get a quick lap to make the 107% time that bit harder.
If it's dry, I can't see the top teams wanting HRT racing. They'll go out to get a quick lap to make the 107% time that bit harder.
?
So is Vettel not a top tier driver then? And what has Alonso done recently to prove he is a top tier driver at all. He cant win races without cheating and cant overtake for toffee.