Soldato
page 37 on the aus gp thread is the video, don't know how to quote to a different thread. IT flexes a bit less but still quite flexible.
Malaysian Grand Prix 2011, Sepang International Circuit - Race 2/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
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Because theres nothing wrong with it, just like there is nothing wrong with the Red Bull wing.
Its passed the FIA tests to be deemed legal to race. There is nothing more to it. Just because in your mind its illegal or you think it goes against the spirits of rules is totally worthless.
Pass Scrutineers tests = legal
Fail Scrutineers tests = illegal
It is that simple.
A video which showed the cars going over a bump, the mclarens wing bounced then came back up.
My opinion is slightly different, essentially legality can only be determined by the regulations, the tests are just there to check the regulations.
So for the RB front wing which blatantly does flex, which is against the regulations, but passes the tests the FIA choose to perform which means it's fine to race.
But that's just a technicality, frankly if you can design an aerodynamic part that flexes to give better downforce/less drag whilst at the same time passing any tests the FIA choose to implement then great, and every other team should just copy it.
Although there does seem to be a certain amount of truth in what CH was saying, it's more than just the wing flexing, it seems to be a combination of the rake, soft-ish suspension leading to body roll, flexing wing and flexing nose that allows it to both pass the tests and work so well...
On the gif (think it was a gif rather than a video?) someone made, I thought that was 'determined' to be a bit dodgy in terms of the mclaren being captured whilst going over a bump, rather than actually flexing. I'm yet to see any decent on-board video showing it on the McLaren yet that's available for the RB...
This conversation is very old though, yes it flexes/runs 'too' close to the floor, but the other teams/the media need to get over it already
Alonso just about did something last year I've never seen. Win the title in the car that was both 0.5-1 second off the pace and not the most reliable.
I'd never seen a car win the title that wasn't one fo those things.
What he did last year was simply stunning considering the car.
Vettel should have won the title in 09 and easily in 10. That Hamilton and Alonso can put him under pressure despite being over 0.5s at a disadvantage shows what they would do to him in the same car.
Or if they ever reverse the roles and by some voodoo magic actually build a dominate car again so they have a time advantage Vettel wouldn't get a look in.
He looks good because he has a car with such a pace advantage that he can get pole and pace the race.
It's not his fault he's driving such a dominate car but I think he's worth is being inflated because of it. I hope Lewis does move there, even in his first season at a new team I wouldn't expect him to have much of an issue breaking him, both on and off the track.
Man of Honour
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I see it as ingenuity more than "cheating". It is frustrating, however, when it leads to a team that is completely dominant. Even more so when it could be for many years. Still, McLaren have a lot of potential in that car, I just hope they manage to develop it in time. RBR's biggest weakness in the past has been reliability - this does seem to have been greatly improved recently.
Debatable, it wasn't a great comparison. Even if the McLaren wing was flexing, it was nowhere near as much as the one on the RB.
Pretty much agree with this. Vettel should have easily won last year, even with the reliability problems. Hamilton and Alonso (as shown previously) can take a good, but not dominant car, and go on to win races and championships. Vettel in comparison has struggled in the past with a car that is way ahead of the field.
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Suspension related, front up rights I believe on the Renaults. They've blamed the failures on a bad batch of materials.
No.
It wasn't a video but a .gif showing split frames of the McLaren going over a bump, the whole car jolts upwards but is cropped to make the wing look like it is moving. The RBR end plates droop towards the ground.
Hamilton even said in an interview after Melbourne that he is hoping that McLaren duplicate the effects of the RBR front wing asap as there is half a second from it.
It's quite plain to see the difference when viewing onboard laps.
The only issue I have is that other times things have passed tests but clearly been flouting the spirit of the rules they have been banned, even if it was because of photographic evidence after passing a static test.
Like the michelins or toyotas rear wing flex.
Forgetting rake and suspension softness they could easily take some front running shots and say that it isn't in the spirit of the regulations.
Then again why should I expect any consistency from the FIA. Simply what will happen is Red Bull will run away with this title and they will ban it because everyone gets bored.
Man of Honour
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Exactly, the FIA make it up as they go along - the reasons seem to vary; to make the sport "more exciting" seem to be the most obvious. There often seem to be other motives. The most obvious with RBR this year, would be that if the FIA deem the car illegal, it brings the whole of last season into disrepute.
The problem is that the rule book states that it shouldn't flex more than a tiny amount. It's quite apparent just from watching on board video that it is bending more than the rules allow. That the test can't measure the same forces as are seen on the race track shouldn't in my opinion mean that you can say the wing is legal. It passes the test which allows them to race. That's all that actually matters when it comes right down to it.
Regardless, the rest of the teams know and have known for some time that as long as you pass the test then its considered legal, even if it flies directly in the face of the written rules because it can't be proven. They've all had more than enough time to work it out so really should quit complaining.
Macca fan btw.
You still havent seen it, so what a complete load of codswallop
By your rationale McLaren did even better than Ferrari as their car was actually worse for a lot of the season and came just as close to the title
Who cares what people could or should have done? All that matters is what they actually did do.
Since 2006 Alonso has done nothing to convince me he is the uber amazing world beating driver people seem to think he is, and all his behaviour outside of the car has made me think he is an arrogant **** and very unlikeable.
Hamilton has won a title.
Button has won a title.
Vettel has won a title and also got a really good off track personality about him
Webber is a proper character, good fun off track (in the DC, Villenuve "say it how it is" kinda way)
Massa is massively likeable, and beat his champion team mate in 2008
Alonso has... moved around teams because he got beaten by a rookie, fallen out with team mamgaers, cheated repeatedly, demanded number 1 status and behaved like a 2 year old child... and lost a title because he couldn't overtake yet another rookie...
Nope, really don't see what is so great about him... He's good yes, but definitely not better than the other top drivers in F1.
Since 2006 Alonso has done nothing to convince me he is the uber amazing world beating driver people seem to think he is, and all his behaviour outside of the car has made me think he is an arrogant **** and very unlikeable.
Hamilton has won a title.
Button has won a title.
Vettel has won a title and also got a really good off track personality about him
Webber is a proper character, good fun off track (in the DC, Villenuve "say it how it is" kinda way)
Massa is massively likeable, and beat his champion team mate in 2008
Alonso has... moved around teams because he got beaten by a rookie, fallen out with team mamgaers, cheated repeatedly, demanded number 1 status and behaved like a 2 year old child... and lost a title because he couldn't overtake yet another rookie...
Nope, really don't see what is so great about him... He's good yes, but definitely not better than the other top drivers in F1.
Soldato
Sounds an extremely biased and incorrect viewpoint. So let's balance it out with my opposite end of the spectrum biased view.
I don't recall the Renault being anything like a championship contender... Can't blame him for not winning a title in that.
He has driven POS cars, far better than his teammates, pretty good show in my eyes.
Him not overtaking Petrov last year... I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't have been able to overtake that car. Lest we forget that Hamilton (God in this forums eyes) couldn't overtake the other Renault. The track was/is a load of **** for cars of this type.
The Mclaren farce, that was just a mess from start to finish, quite why they brought him in I'll never know, Hamilton is, was and always will be their poster child.
All top drivers are arrogant, it's the way to stay at the top. It's why Vettel has won a championship and Webber never will.
I don't recall the Renault being anything like a championship contender... Can't blame him for not winning a title in that.
He has driven POS cars, far better than his teammates, pretty good show in my eyes.
Him not overtaking Petrov last year... I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't have been able to overtake that car. Lest we forget that Hamilton (God in this forums eyes) couldn't overtake the other Renault. The track was/is a load of **** for cars of this type.
The Mclaren farce, that was just a mess from start to finish, quite why they brought him in I'll never know, Hamilton is, was and always will be their poster child.
All top drivers are arrogant, it's the way to stay at the top. It's why Vettel has won a championship and Webber never will.
Soldato
ALonso is very good but i thinked a bit hyped becuse some people think the renault he drove was a dog when he won the wdc.
Get back in your box, I said JUST ABOUT DID, I didn't say he did it. I was saying almost, at no time did I say he did it.
Again the Mclaren was far more reliable than the Ferrari. Over the season there wasn't a lot in difference between the two in pace but Ferrari was nursing some pretty poor reliability.
Before Alonso's arrival at Ferrari last year Massa was regarded as a pretty decent driver. I myself, felt that Alonso + Massa vs Button + Hamilton, would've been fantastic to see.
Yet, when Alonso arrived last year, he completely broke Massa. Mentally, Massa is completely beaten. There were some situations like at Monaco, where Alonso started at the back of the grid and then cruised up behind his team-mate. There were situations where it almost looks as if the 2 drivers are driving different cars...that's how fast/good Alonso is.
Of all the top teams last year, Alonso was the one who dominated his team-mate the most.
How anybody could say that he is not the best driver in F1, is beyond me. Even his compatriots (current generation of F1 drivers) have voted him as the best.
Prove to me he's cheated repeatedly. Tell me the times. Infact don't derail this thread start another on why Alonso is a cheat and has cheated. It would be easier to pick apart in another thread and nto ruin this one for everyone.
Fallen out with team managers That suggests more than one, another exaggeration?
He fell out with Dennis, but then so did the hamilton family so even after your treated like family I guess falling out with Dennis isn't hard. Even Coulthard managed it.
Demanded No1 status, wow not like they all don't want or do that. On the face of it I can understand it, no one knew how good hamilton was going to be and you would expect say a Hamilton now to get no 1 status if a new kid joined the team. Don't see the issue, It's not like Vettel to try to do the same is it? After all he's pretty ruthless.
Overtake a rookie? Well Hamilton couldn't overtake the other Renault either and he's seen as a god on here for over taking, perhaps the renault just worked better. After all it's not like F1 has been full of overtaking and that's not a great track for a history of passing.
Beaten by a rookie?
They got the same points, a fact always over looked.
Soldato
sunama, you're just asking for a... "but he wasn't very good at beating Massa at Germany!? <insert winking smiley>"
I completely agree, I thought Massa was great in previous years but... Next to Alonso, he just doesn't stand a chance.
I completely agree, I thought Massa was great in previous years but... Next to Alonso, he just doesn't stand a chance.
Just to shut this forums whiners up 
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns23119.html
Think i will take that point of view pretty much everytime.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns23119.html
Think i will take that point of view pretty much everytime.
Soldato
Hmm, Schumacher is doing alright there. Possibly not too representative though of what will happen tomorrow in quali's when the top guns really start pushing their boundaries.