Malaysian Grand Prix 2011, Sepang International Circuit - Race 2/19

Caporegime
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I just don't see the point, sure it makes for more overtaking - crap artificial easy overtaking.

Why go through the all the expense when just telling the driver infront to pull over and let the car behind past if they're within 1 second would have the same effect? Or better yet, don't race at all, or even make cars, just input the teams budget, likely decisions etc into a computer and run it through F1 2011 (the game) and stream it out on 'race' weekends?

Why do you think it was great?
i agree watch any video from the 90's when cars were still allowed to race.. its awesome how they defend hard but firm...

these days your not allowed to defend at all they may aswell make it so you must drive in a straight line and only on the outside of corners so aid overtaking...

F1 is dead welcome to scalextric 1
 
Man of Honour
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Also with DRS what incentive do drivers have to risk moves elsewhere on the track now? sure if they're given the opportunity they will take it but they aren't going to try to make anything happen when all they have to do is stay close and overtake in the DRS zone.

Did you even watch the last race :confused:
 
Man of Honour
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i agree watch any video from the 90's when cars were still allowed to race.. its awesome how they defend hard but firm...

these days your not allowed to defend at all they may aswell make it so you must drive in a straight line and only on the outside of corners so aid overtaking...

F1 is dead welcome to scalextric 1

Pretty much sums it up at the moment.
 
Caporegime
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To be honest the tyre decision should be left to McLaren and not Hamilton, and the team screwed up. All Hamilton can do is say how the tyres he is currently driving on are handling. The team is the one with all of the data on how the various tyres are expected to handle the ever evolving track conditions. Expecting the driver to calculate how long he'd expect a set of partially scrubbed prime tyres to last on a track that's been subtly changing throughout a race given the current track temperatures and while he's racing is just not going to happen.

Schumacher famously said that he spent 70% of his brain power on racing and 30% on strategy while in the cockpit, but even then there's too many variables and unknowns for a driver to make that kind of call on whether he can make that set last an unprecedented amount of time.
Rubbish - if the driver who experiencing the conditions cant work out what set he should use next and how to treat them then they should get out of the sport. Ultimately data collected by the team will support that decision but it should never be their decision - how you think a set of numbers should be valued higher than what the drivers feeling on track is mental...

As dannyjo2 said earlier Hamiltons just been way too mollycoddled by Mclaren - he just is so naive, when things dont go his way he pulls a sulk and shrugs...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Soldato
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And thats why I think Hamilton isnt a great driver, by all means stick him in a car and hell probably get the best out of it or chase down the man in front - but to ask him to do anything that isnt short term and hes found wanting - horse and carrot comes to mind...

He just doesnt have the mental capacity to work out how displaced competitors may affect his race later like people like Schumacher, Button and Alonso do; even Vettels starting to demonstrate some thought, like asking Newey right after the race how many pit stops 2nd place Button had done. To me thats a mark of a great driver, who hasnt the ability to use any spare capacity to question/work out the minimum he needs to do to maintain/gain places while attempting to finish a race.

Hamiton needs to change his driving style which he appears to be doing (as Brundle put it hes trying to be more smoother like Button) as these Pirrelis just fall apart too easily (as per design) - he also needs to realise its a race weekend and whatever silly little things he does in qualifying will affect his race - how often have we heard the words 'Hamitons locked up in the first corner' - hes notorious for having small lock ups and now he has tyres that just wont cope with that, theres no graining phase where they might come back, when they go they go...

At least though he heading in the right direction, but hes definitely the dumbest champion on that grid...

ps3ud0 :cool:

Too harsh to make sense.

McLaren thought they were in with a chance of victory.

It will happen to other drivers, just you wait. Dangle the possibility of a victory in front of them and they too will get too greedy too early and lose everything.

Everyone is playing the tyre learning game at the moment. Not just Hamilton.
 
Caporegime
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Have a look at last year and tell me Hamilton didnt lock up a lot - its not a feature of the tyres, its his driving style. Unfortunately these Pirellis havent been designed to be so accommodating as the Bridgestones - hell we might see proper wets being used in normal rain :eek:...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Associate
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i agree watch any video from the 90's when cars were still allowed to race.. its awesome how they defend hard but firm...

these days your not allowed to defend at all they may aswell make it so you must drive in a straight line and only on the outside of corners so aid overtaking...

F1 is dead welcome to scalextric 1

You just described Indycar road racing, they are not allowed to defend into a corner and have to stay on the outside. I wish I was joking.
 
Man of Honour
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http://www.planet-f1.com/driver/18227/6865872/Pirelli-under-fire-for-marbles-

The driver complaints don't surprise me. Cars going offline were kicking up a huge number of marbles and other debris - even breaking one of the onboard cameras *whilst* we were "onboard". These tyres suck, and I am not convinced the "we designed them to degrade" argument cuts it tbh. It wasn't very hot either, imagine what Montreal or Singapore might be like!
 
Caporegime
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Then I stand corrected its nothing to do with Hamiltons use of tyres it seems - strange how it doesnt materalise on any of his partners cars to the same extent though. McLaren just cant build a car that isnt as damaging to its tyres I suppose then.

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Soldato
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Then I stand corrected its nothing to do with Hamiltons use of tyres it seems - strange how it doesnt materalise on any of his partners cars to the same extent though. McLaren just cant build a car that isnt as damaging to its tyres I suppose then.

ps3ud0 :cool:

It only really happens frequently on the unloaded tyre - so doesn't really damage the tyres in the same way a true lock up would turn them into 50 pence pieces. And even then the corner needs to have an amount of camber change or elevation to it in order to show up the McLaren's stiff springs.

MB comments on it quite often.

Some people think the RBR front wing appears as flexible as it does simply because they run a softly sprung setup at the front which allows the downforce to compress the springs much more.
 
Soldato
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http://www.planet-f1.com/driver/18227/6865872/Pirelli-under-fire-for-marbles-

The driver complaints don't surprise me. Cars going offline were kicking up a huge number of marbles and other debris - even breaking one of the onboard cameras *whilst* we were "onboard". These tyres suck, and I am not convinced the "we designed them to degrade" argument cuts it tbh. It wasn't very hot either, imagine what Montreal or Singapore might be like!

They were given a set of requirements and met them. People are now complaining about what they asked for. :confused:

The marbles issue can be fixed, but they're only in to their first year of supplying tyres after a huge break. The level of criticism they're receiving is unfair, really.
 
Man of Honour
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But would they really have given a penalty without the Spanish Git moaning and crying?

Alonso's collision with Hamilton was directed to the stewards by the race director.

There is no mention of the race director and Hamilton in the statement about his punishment.

Weirdly, Alsonso was almost nice about Hamilton's defending. :eek:
 
Man of Honour
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How though is it anymore artificial than the 70's?

In years before the aero war, when a car got behind it had an advantage that the car infront couldn't counter. It got an advantage being in the slip.

All that has happened in DRS has given some of the balance back without costing the teams millions in aero redevelopement or losing the wings that are advertising boards.

I'm not saying I'm pro DRS I'm pretty split on it at the moment but it's no more artificial than the advantage you used to get but couldn't counter.

They get slip stream now, it's following in corners which they can't do plenty have slip streamed down the straights before DRS was introduced. Guess where DRS is used yep that's right on the straight not in the corners.so not only do they still get a slip stream they DRS as well.

Because everyone had one set of rules, if they didn't wnt. Turbo they could go fuel efficiency route as far as I know there is nothing comparable to DRS it is extremely unfair and stupid system. Let's just get rid of some aero. Now double diffuser has gone there where lots of people following at 0.5 seconds which is far better than previuse seasons.

Saying they would have to spend millions on redesigning aero is also silly, they do this every year.
 
Caporegime
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Saying they would have to spend millions on redesigning aero is also silly, they do this every year.

Aero upgrades year on year is massively different to a complete new package. It's no use saying scale back the aero but not give examples of what exactly you want removed or scaled back?

That's just a throw away statement anyone can make without adding any thought to how you accomplise it.

Remove wings? Standard wings? Greater bodywork regulations?

All this costs money for the teams at a time when few seem to have it.

Yes I agree DRS is for the straights and they could still slipstream but nothing like they used to be able to. Watching them use the DRS yesterday, coupled with Kers was like watching the acceleration they used to get to whip by. The last few years to get a decent slipstream used to take an age to get going.

As I say I'm 50/50 on the device, I just think it was a cheap option.

Perhaps a thread on DRS and what people think and what changes aerodynamically people want?
 
Man of Honour
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You change the size of a wing and all aero needs to change. If rule changes arenade on front wing, this affects air flow over the entire car, they have money to do aero, what teams say is they don't have money to do big new engineering like. Kers which is something totally different.

The reason slip stream looks less is because after final corner they are much further back therefore they only start getting into real slip stream towards the end of. The straight and it's folate. When they could follow nose to bumper this didn't happen, DRS doesn't solve this at all.

You have aero which doesn't creat dirty air, which they are doing. Ground effect,you could even bring skirts back. You then reduce the size of front and rear wings, and get rid of all bolt on tat (on the wings) and only have one board. You then get stickier tyres and you bring back bigger bhp. This will do more than solve dirty air and you would get great racing again. Its also cheap ground. Effect is cheap and much stricter aero means less design options. But IMO you needy open up and engine and kers design otherwise there is no inventions.

The slip stream is still there, what you don't have is differences in break horsepower like they use to have, it is not just dirty air.

It's a cheap option but doesn't solve the problem and is a cheat and completely stupid. DRS is nothing like previuse seasons even going back to 70s.
 
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Man of Honour
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Found out why Buemi got a 10 second stop and go penalty rather than just a drive through.

Pit lane speed limit of 100kph
Buemi did 120kph

Whoops. :D
 
Caporegime
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Did you even watch the last race :confused:

Yep, as I said apart from the opportunist moves most of the overtakes took place in the DRS zone.

The main talking point of the race (Alonso hitting Hamilton) wouldn't have occured if Alonso's DRS hadn't broke, he would have simply stayed on Hamilton's gearbox not risking such a move and then flown past him in the DRS zone in a rather predictable fashion.
 
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Deleted member 651465

D

Deleted member 651465

Found out why Buemi got a 10 second stop and go penalty rather than just a drive through.

Pit lane speed limit of 100kph
Buemi did 120kph

Whoops. :D

Thanks. I was watching it with a mate and we couldn't work out wtf was going on when the board came up with "Stop and Go" on it.

May as well have caned it through the pits once he saw he was 20kph over :p
 
Man of Honour
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Thanks. I was watching it with a mate and we couldn't work out wtf was going on when the board came up with "Stop and Go" on it.

May as well have caned it through the pits once he saw he was 20kph over :p

He didn't realise he had exceeded the limit. He thought he hadn't activated the pit lane speed limiter so he pressed it again... and turned it off, and got a penalty.

He reached 120.6kph, stop and go does still seem a little excessive. Drive through would have more than sufficed really. Seems we had some right bar-stewards this weekend. :p
 
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