Man of Honour
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I disagree with that, purely based on his body language on the podium. That was a person who did not 100% believe he had made the right choice, at least imo.
Malaysian Grand Prix 2013, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/19
- Thread starter Duke
- Start date
I disagree with that, purely based on his body language on the podium. That was a person who did not 100% believe he had made the right choice, at least imo.
He put nothing at risk. 3 time WDC trumps Team Player number 2 driver every time. Even if they took each other off, what are they going to do, sack Vettel?
He has free reign in that team, everyone knows it, including Mark.
To add to my previous post:
In the instances of team orders today, what was ordered by the teams was completely fair. Race until point X (safely) and at that point you must stop racing and bring it home in formation.
Merc got it right, Nico respected the team and did what he was supposed to do. Vettel got it wrong. They knew the score, Vettel had his chance to pass Webber when their race was on and didn't get it done. To subvert the team and his teammate and do it anyway is bang out of order - its basic sportsmanship.
This is in stark contrast to the less sporting of team orders with examples like Barichello being asked to move aside for Schumacher just to bolster the latter's championship aspirations and Alonso/Massa more recently etc.
In the instances of team orders today, what was ordered by the teams was completely fair. Race until point X (safely) and at that point you must stop racing and bring it home in formation.
Merc got it right, Nico respected the team and did what he was supposed to do. Vettel got it wrong. They knew the score, Vettel had his chance to pass Webber when their race was on and didn't get it done. To subvert the team and his teammate and do it anyway is bang out of order - its basic sportsmanship.
This is in stark contrast to the less sporting of team orders with examples like Barichello being asked to move aside for Schumacher just to bolster the latter's championship aspirations and Alonso/Massa more recently etc.
Yeah, hence why I said it was damage limitation, not genuine remorse.
Sure this is what was going through his mind when he tried to run Vettel off the track at Brazil last year, oh wait.
Nothing at risk? Even Horner triple underlined in the post-race interview the importance to the team of 43 points.
He risked those 43 points. We could have had another collision like has happened before and boom, 43 points gone - for what?
It isn't about Webber - it could have been anyone in the other car, its about the right thing in sporting terms and the right thing for the team. The team is bigger than any one man.
At what point during trying to pass Hamilton 3 or 4 times and crying down the radio did Nico "respect the team"?
The only reason the Mercedes situation was different was because Hamilton was able to keep Rosberg behind him when he tried to pass.
I'm going to assume (dangerous) that they were racing up until the point at which Rosberg settled in behind Hamilton just prior to the radio transmissions we heard. He's entitled to protest the ruling of his boss (I do that all the time) but once a final decision is made, that's that.
Do you just ignore your superiors whenever you want? Do you think you're bigger than the organisation you work for?
He couldn't defend because a) Vettel took a run at him which is virtually impossible to stop once it has started and b) because he'd turned his engine down in line with the orders given by the team. Pretty much as everyone has said multiple times.
As for catching him, what would be the point? He knows full well the ****storm that would follow if he tried to turn it into an actual prolonged battle after they've both been told to stop racing. He's not the golden boy, he wouldn't get the protection of the team in the same way Vettel does.
Say Red Bull had webber as a lead driver and then say... Buemi as number two - would they have three constructors titles?
Is Vettel bigger than the team? No. Does he represent the biggest chance of success out of their two drivers? Yes.
Is Vettel bigger than the team? No. Does he represent the biggest chance of success out of their two drivers? Yes.
No, but I'm not an F1 driver, so I don't see the relation.
The "nobody is bigger than the team" line is PR BS. The WCC matters to stats men and the teams accountants, for everyone else the WDC is what matters. Its certainly what matters to Vettel.
The "nobody is bigger than the team" line is PR BS. The WCC matters to stats men and the teams accountants, for everyone else the WDC is what matters. Its certainly what matters to Vettel.
The point at which he stopped, raced a good chunk of laps right on Hamilton's bumper without attempting a pass and brought the car home in 4th. That point.
When Seb went past round the outside Mark would have been well within his rights to take the racing line and hang him off the circuit, but would have risked Seb oversteering into him under acceleration.
Mark did the sensible thing for the team and only fought to a point, he knew it was either a win for Seb or game over for both.
Horner has stated Mark didn't turn his engine down. He had the tools to catch him.
Crazy suggestion, but maybe Vettel was simply... quicker?
Exactly. Going on DRZ logic Massa and Rubens would be the ideal dream team.
Going round in circles this is.
Team had a 1,2 the bag, tell both drivers to bring it home probably with target laptimes. Seb being told to keep a 3 second gap.
Mark eases off, Seb ignores the 3 second gap, team repeatedly tell Seb to ease off. Seb catches Mark who will never be expecting Seb to overtake after the teams discussions. From that I think Seb caught Mark out and while there was a hussle for position it was never a fair game of racing no matter what your engine mode.
Today Sebastian showed yet again he cannot deal with team commands, and while the drivers are racing for a drivers championship they would not be there if the team was not, he is always disobeying orders such as the usual fastest lap at the end. He is spoilt and very much disliked going by the boo's at Australia last week, this will not have helped him at all.
If a team principle cannot trust his driver then i dont know what. Team is team, your employed by them and if this was at my work, something like this could be seen as gross misconduct.
Ross
Team had a 1,2 the bag, tell both drivers to bring it home probably with target laptimes. Seb being told to keep a 3 second gap.
Mark eases off, Seb ignores the 3 second gap, team repeatedly tell Seb to ease off. Seb catches Mark who will never be expecting Seb to overtake after the teams discussions. From that I think Seb caught Mark out and while there was a hussle for position it was never a fair game of racing no matter what your engine mode.
Today Sebastian showed yet again he cannot deal with team commands, and while the drivers are racing for a drivers championship they would not be there if the team was not, he is always disobeying orders such as the usual fastest lap at the end. He is spoilt and very much disliked going by the boo's at Australia last week, this will not have helped him at all.
If a team principle cannot trust his driver then i dont know what. Team is team, your employed by them and if this was at my work, something like this could be seen as gross misconduct.
Ross
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Interestingly, if they'd stayed Webber Vettel, then they'd each be on 33 points and joint first. As it stands now, they're on 40 and 26, first and third.
Perhaps Vettel's ego just couldn't stomach the thought of Webber appearing to be his equal, in even the smallest capacity.
Perhaps Vettel's ego just couldn't stomach the thought of Webber appearing to be his equal, in even the smallest capacity.