Malaysian Grand Prix 2013, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/19

[DRZ]

No, but I'm not an F1 driver, so I don't see the relation.

The "nobody is bigger than the team" line is PR BS. The WCC matters to stats men and the teams accountants, for everyone else the WDC is what matters. Its certainly what matters to Vettel.

It was the only thing Horner talked about for the 2 minutes or so he was stood with the Sky team. He framed everything in the context of the WCC.

Clearly unimportant.

As for nobody is bigger than the team, that's not PR BS, that's one of the key underpinnings of just about every team everywhere - sport or not! If you can't understand what being part of a team is then, well, there's not much point in discussing this as that's the entire crux of the matter.

 

[Kenai]

Horner has stated Mark didn't turn his engine down. He had the tools to catch him.

Crazy suggestion, but maybe Vettel was simply... quicker?

Mark has stated he did. Given Horner also started BS comments like 'the drivers took it into their own hands' when it was clearly Vettel who elected to break rank, I don't think Horners comments are a particularly unbiased reflection on the actual events.

Crazy suggestion, but maybe if Vettel was simply quicker... he could have overtaken under racing conditions?

Instead he whinged at the team on the radio to "make him get out the way" and then only got past once they were told to stop racing and Webber slowed.

Definitely sounds like the actions of a driver who was 'simply quicker'.

 

[Rybo89]

I think SV will of lost a lot of respect across the paddock. You could see he knew he did wrong on the podium. Looked like a little baby abouts to explode into tears because no one come to comfort him for his wrong doing.

Newy clearly wasn't happy and the Redbull owner was furious.

The bloke with the big TV showed that Webber pulled back and let SV pass in the end even though Webber had the racing line.

Saying this.... Webber knew what he was getting into before he signed the contract.

On other notes... Hammy asking Bernie to help get him into Red bull last year, that would have been awesome! Watching LH put SV in his place, I think some right toys would be thrown out of the pram from both sides

 

[Skeeter]

Going round in circles this is.

Team had a 1,2 the bag, tell both drivers to bring it home probably with target laptimes. Seb being told to keep a 3 second gap.

Mark eases off, Seb ignores the 3 second gap, team repeatedly tell Seb to ease off. Seb catches Mark who will never be expecting Seb to overtake after the teams discussions. From that I think Seb caught Mark out and while there was a hussle for position it was never a fair game of racing no matter what your engine mode.

Today Sebastian showed yet again he cannot deal with team commands, and while the drivers are racing for a drivers championship they would not be there if the team was not, he is always disobeying orders such as the usual fastest lap at the end. He is spoilt and very much disliked going by the boo's at Australia last week, this will not have helped him at all.

If a team principle cannot trust his driver then i dont know what. Team is team, your employed by them and if this was at my work, something like this could be seen as gross misconduct.

Ross

Your basing your survey of Sebs popularity on his reception in Australia, of all places? That's like saying Hamilton is unpopular because the Spanish don't like him.

Interestingly, if they'd stayed Webber Vettel, then they'd each be on 33 points and joint first. As it stands now, they're on 40 and 26, first and third.

Perhaps Vettel's ego just couldn't stomach the thought of Webber appearing to be his equal, in even the smallest capacity.

I doubt he was doing the maths in his head. But do I think Seb couldn't stomach the though of coming second to Webber when he thought he could beat him? 100%.

 

[DRZ]

Horner has stated Mark didn't turn his engine down. He had the tools to catch him.

Crazy suggestion, but maybe Vettel was simply... quicker?



Exactly. Going on DRZ logic Massa and Rubens would be the ideal dream team.

You know that you're talking **** now.

Once Webber had been passed by Vettel the guy was incandescent with rage inside that helmet. I'm astonished there wasn't an accident but it is little wonder he wasn't on it until the end, between that and THE TEAM ORDERS TO NURSE THE CARS HOME!

 

[Jase]

He couldn't defend because a) Vettel took a run at him which is virtually impossible to stop once it has started and b) because he'd turned his engine down in line with the orders given by the team. Pretty much as everyone has said multiple times.

But that bit is not right, if he had turned the engine down he turned it back up when he realised vettel was trying to overtake him - this was confirmed by Horner afterwards.. they were racing for a lap before he finally lost the lead.

 

[deuse]

Horner has stated Mark didn't turn his engine down. He had the tools to catch him.

Horner said on the BBC that he did not know and would have to check up.
Hmmm Horner doesn't know! he was sitting there when the call was made and he is the boss lmao.

Anyway roll on 3 weeks time

 

[Skeeter]

But that bit is not right, if he had turned the engine down he turned it back up when he realised vettel was trying to overtake him - this was confirmed by Horner afterwards.. they were racing for a lap before he finally lost the lead.

So a lap where they both had the same engine map, and were both racing so both ignoring the team orders?

Aka, a fair fight.

You got a link to Horner?

 

[Neo4]

Just out of curiosity, are the people complaining about what Vettel did today, the same people that complain about team orders in F1 or should team orders be ok when it is a driver you dislike involved?

Thought we all wanted racing?

 

[Regy53]

Your basing your survey of Sebs popularity on his reception in Australia, of all places? That's like saying Hamilton is unpopular because the Spanish don't like him.

Perhaps, while I don't know thousands of f1 fans, I cant think of one of my friends who supports Vettel. He is generally disliked in my opinion such as his consistent finger thing he does. Nobody likes it, or him.

 

[Mr Men]

Just out of curiosity, are the people complaining about what Vettel did today, the same people that complain about team orders in F1 or should team orders be ok when it is a driver you dislike involved?

Thought we all wanted racing?

What Seb did today was not racing though, that is the point?

 

[CaptainRAVE]

So a lap where they both had the same engine map, and were both racing so both ignoring the team orders?

Aka, a fair fight.

You got a link to Horner?

Do you have a link from horner saying they were both using the same engine map?

 

[Matteh]

It was the only thing Horner talked about for the 2 minutes or so he was stood with the Sky team. He framed everything in the context of the WCC.

Clearly unimportant.

As for nobody is bigger than the team, that's not PR BS, that's one of the key underpinnings of just about every team everywhere - sport or not! If you can't understand what being part of a team is then, well, there's not much point in discussing this as that's the entire crux of the matter.

Have to disagree. In F1 you have two interests. A team one and a personal one. If you believe you can serve the team interest while bettering your own you will do it. In fact, you Will most likely serve your own interest as long as you're not gonna **** the team off too much. Otherwise, you're a number two driver.

Just like in anyone's professional life - if you want to get ahead, you do what it takes. Otherwise, you hold tight and hope things go your way.

 

[.Sean]

It's sad. This is motorsport. Why should we, the fans, be happy with a team telling their drivers to stand off and not race each other, going against the whole idea of this sport... We're being robbed of action and if Vettel had listened to his team, he'd have been robbed of his oppertunity to get 1st place.

Good on you, Vettel, for doing what you're there to do. RACE!

 

[Regy53]

 

[Neo4]

What Seb did today was not racing though, that is the point?

You have the telemetry from both cars then?

 

[Kenai]

The BBC have an evening interview with Horner saying he doesn't know. Where has he stated that they were both the same or Webber turned his up?

 

[Mr Men]

It's sad. This is motorsport. Why should we, the fans, be happy with a team telling their drivers to stand off and not race each other, going against the whole idea of this sport... We're being robbed of action and if Vettel had listened to his team, he'd have been robbed of his oppertunity to get 1st place.

Good on you, Vettel, for doing what you're there to do. RACE!

Ermmm if Webber had not listened to the team he would have won, it's a team sport?

 

[Mr Men]

You have the telemetry from both cars then?

Do you?

 

[Skeeter]

Just out of curiosity, are the people complaining about what Vettel did today, the same people that complain about team orders in F1 or should team orders be ok when it is a driver you dislike involved?

Thought we all wanted racing?

When team orders are against the rules, its bad.

When its not, fair game, part of the sport.

Personally, I don't like the idea of the race being nullified after the final pitstops, but that happened regardless of team orders.