Malaysian Grand Prix 2013, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/19

[ps3ud0]

I got the impression LH was under drastic fuel saving, while in comparison NR wasnt anywhere near as much (I swear Ross Brawn mentioned they were both fuel saving post race).

I cant see any real reason why the team orders were employed as they were, as NR was just making LH just waste fuel keeping him behind - it was the most sensible thing to order him to pass, at worse he would have appeared a fool if he wasnt much more quicker than LH or unable to make a real dent in catching the Red Bulls. NR just deoesnt appear to be someone that just says bull to get his way...

ps3ud0

 

[Skeeter]

I assume Rosberg could have been saving fuel anyway, simply by being behind Hamilton who was?

Hamilton was the only one who we heard lots of radio calls about though. Rosberg was told that "Hamilton is driving to deltas too" which suggests it might have been both?

All I'm saying is that when your driving 8/10th behind someone else doing 8/10th, is very easy to duck and dive, and make half moves up the inside and give the impression that your faster. But how do we know that if Rosberg was put in front he wouldn't have been told to maintain that same pace anyway?

Rosberg passed Hamilton a number of times, Hamilton passed him back straight away, meaning when the call came to hold position Rosberg was behind. Had he been a bit cleverer about it he could have got himself in front.

 

[Domo]

I don't know what people are complaining about, you came to watch a race. Vettel certainly spiced things up a little.

My feelings too. I'd far sooner watch greedy selfish drivers out there than a bunch of cars containing robots. Who really wants to see cars cross the line in a pre-determined order. That's not racing!!!!

Just to think the top 4 were all given a position number to finish in.

Bit of attitude, wheel to wheel racing and some controversy? Bring it on!

I'm sure in a parallel universe people are moaning F1 is too predictable and about as exciting as watching a procession.

 

[Domo]

Duplicate! Please delete mods.. stupid Safari !

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I suspect that even if Rosberg was allowed through, he'd have ruined his tyres trying to catch the Red Bulls and ended up behind Hamilton (possibly Massa) had his tyres gone "off the cliff".

That's surely what was going through the minds at Merc, too.

 

[tummelv]

Interesting read.

 

[Nismo]

I assume Rosberg could have been saving fuel anyway, simply by being behind Hamilton who was?

Hamilton was the only one who we heard lots of radio calls about though. Rosberg was told that "Hamilton is driving to deltas too" which suggests it might have been both?

All I'm saying is that when your driving 8/10th behind someone else doing 8/10th, is very easy to duck and dive, and make half moves up the inside and give the impression that your faster. But how do we know that if Rosberg was put in front he wouldn't have been told to maintain that same pace anyway?

Rosberg passed Hamilton a number of times, Hamilton passed him back straight away, meaning when the call came to hold position Rosberg was behind. Had he been a bit cleverer about it he could have got himself in front.

Given Hamilton's body language and what he said after the race, I think it's fairly clear Rosberg could have gone massively quicker. If you watch on-board of Rosberg going down the main straight into turn 1, it's ridiculous the lack of effort he has to put in.

Also I think these people saying we shouldn't complain about RB and that we should be grateful to see racing, yes obviously we do and hell it made compelling TV. But Webber wasn't racing (certainly before the pass and in the aftermath of it at least), and people are annoyed at Vettel's lack of regard for team orders. If they had been allowed to race, nobody would have an issue.

Entertainment wise it was fantastic, morally it sucked.

 

[utajoker]

 

[Tenzo]

Interesting read.

Very interesting

 

[PinkFloyd]

On the liking Vettel due to being "greedy and selfish" note, I could kinda agree with this except for one point. Having a driver on the field who is happy to race whilst annoying the crap out of everyone including his team by being completely uncaring of anyone's opinion of him if he didn't happen to be the same person who when behind a teammate or other driver, unable to get passed made radio messages asking the team to do something, and get them out of my way.

To me, this is why he comes across as a unlikeable spoilt brat, rather than someone who will do anything he can to get what he wants.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Interesting read.

Interesting about the team orders but this is the bit that got me:

Vettel responded, and Rocquelin again pleaded with him to back off: “Sebastian you need to get out of the KERS button, get out of the KERS overtake button, the system won’t take it. No KERS overtake button. Use KERS normally.” Later he added: “Sebastian be careful of front tyre wear, front tyre wear is high, both front and rear high wear.”

Sounds like RBR have a KERS 'overdrive' (for want of a better word) that does something more than just the usual KERS boost… or do all the teams have this?

 

[Skeeter]

Given Hamilton's body language and what he said after the race, I think it's fairly clear Rosberg could have gone massively quicker. If you watch on-board of Rosberg going down the main straight into turn 1, it's ridiculous the lack of effort he has to put in.

Rosberg would have had DRS, but was told not to pass. Obviously at the end of both DRS zones he would have been quicker than Hamilton who didn't have DRS.

When they were both allowed to race, before Ross called time, Rosberg passed Hamilton, and Hamilton passed him straight back.

I just don't think that Rosberg hustling Hamilton in DRS zones is really proof that Rosberg could have gone quicker.

 

[Skeeter]

Very interesting

I wonder if people will still persist that the uproar isn't simply due to the Vettel hate?

Sounds like RBR have a KERS 'overdrive' (for want of a better word) that does something more than just the usual KERS boost… or do all the teams have this?

A lot of teams have an 'overtake' button that allows full revs and things on the engine. Maybe RBR have a single button that both over-revs the engine and deploys KERS at the same time, rather than having to press 2 buttons?

 

[Tenzo]

I wonder if people will still persist that the uproar isn't simply due to the Vettel hate?

I think the uproar is about the manner in which Vettel undertook the move, not so much the fact he did or team orders in general.

All the other examples showed irritated, but compliant drivers except Bottas. The difference there was he was asked to give up a position to Spastor, which he clearly refused to do.

Bottas pits and Spastor crashes in clear air, which makes it quite comical.

 

[dannyjo22]

I wonder if people will still persist that the uproar isn't simply due to the Vettel hate?

Are you going to keep going forever to try to get the last word?

Everyone accepts there are team orders and the reason for them. People aren't accepting that one team member broke them to stuff over another team member.

The other teams orders people accepted even if they didn't like it, because they have had to accept the team is bigger than them. Vettel clearly thinks differently.

I think people would haev taken Vettel winning if Webber had any idea a race was on and could have had a go at managing the gap, rather than seeing it come down with assurances the race was his. Had Vettel won in those circumstances fair play.

 

[Skeeter]

Bottas ignored team orders too. Nobody seems to care.

The 20 pages of abuse Vettel has got are because Vettel ignored team orders, not that a driver ignored team orders, proven by evidence showing that other drivers have ignored team orders being completely dismissed, or even defended, while calls for Vettel to be penalised or banned are sustained.

As a number of users have said, the simple fact that people are fed up of Vettel wining is blinkering their views, and stifling any meaningful discussions in favour of just hurling abuse at the popular target.

 

[dannyjo22]

Bottas ignored team orders too. Nobody seems to care.

Well do you think that's because until that link was posted nobody actually knew? So you want people to be upset about things they never knew about?

 

[Nismo]

Rosberg would have had DRS, but was told not to pass. Obviously at the end of both DRS zones he would have been quicker than Hamilton who didn't have DRS.

When they were both allowed to race, before Ross called time, Rosberg passed Hamilton, and Hamilton passed him straight back.

I just don't think that Rosberg hustling Hamilton in DRS zones is really proof that Rosberg could have gone quicker.

You could audibly hear him lifting off way before the corner, nothing to do with DRS. It was pretty apparent from his driving there was so much spare capacity.

And I go back to Hamilton's demeanour after the race, he knew damn full well Rosberg had done a much better job than him in the race and could have passed him, he was almost embarrassed to have claimed 3rd.

 

[Tenzo]

Bottas ignored team orders too. Nobody seems to care.

The orders are different. Staying in position is one thing, yielding your place is another, especially so early in the race and season.

Surely you can see the fundamental difference in the two situations, nevermind the fact no one knew about it until now and Spastor crashed as soon as he got some clear air.

 

[Merlin5]