Soldato
Except it won't, stocks are full. They were on the news about it.
Manchester Bombing *** Please remain respectful and refrain from antagonising posts ***
- Thread starter omnomnom
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Except it won't, stocks are full. They were on the news about it.
The real point is that it isn't really a show of solidarity. It's just an insincere act that people jump onto as it's effectively the latest "fad". Like the ice bucket challenge, where the vast majority of people did it just to copy everyone else who was doing it.
Soldato
I don't believe that.
Clearly your estimate of the Iran Iraq war is the main area of concern, at 1.4-5 Million Iraqi Deaths (well beyond anything wikipedia appears to report) it is a seriously dubious outlier proposed statistic.
If (which you don't appear to be) you are interested in the methodology and range of proposed casualty figures for our intervention in Iraq, why don't you bother to read either your own source on the intervention (not the Iran Iraq War obviously) and/or how it and other sources figure in the edit for data presented in the pages discussing the war!
I'm not disputing IBC's claim that currently in Iraq
Their method shows fully confirmed civilian casualties (as laid out by the IBC site and referenced on the wikipedia page I originally used as a source).
If you bother to read the wikipedia details about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War you will find that fully confirmed casualties (in a failed state's war zone) are un surprisingly lower than a number of statistical studies. In all probability the methodology and results presented by the Lancet are the most representative and feature heavily in the wiki pages discussion of the war, whilst being far lower than other analysis, they are not based on purely confirmed body counting methods and the problems that come with that in war zones.
As I have said before, in both cases (intervention and Iran Iraq war), wikipedia's out of work PHD smack down for controversial topics, is likely to be far more rigorous than a couple of individuals throwing together some magpie sources on a computer shop forum, if you feel you know more about how to collect representative data of casualties of war than the aggregate approach on wikipedia, bully for you.
Just to re assert, I and others who were prominently against unilateral intervention in Iraq are not claiming Saddam was some kind of benevolent dictator, though replacing Iran's Bombs with our own was/is unlikely to improve our relationship with the parents of the dead. I wont press the fact that technically the bombs were likely manufactured by the likes of Raytheon in both instances.
On a global scale, what could we have achieved during the period with that amount of time effort and economic clout?
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Soldato
I wouldn't presume to speak for the sincerity of people permanently marking themselves as a show of solidarity.
Personally when terror occurs, people who simply stand up and carry on generally get my respect, from Steve Buscemi checking back in to his old job as a Fire Fighter in new york, to going back into the financial centre or hopping on a Bus (years later) in London the day after, or flying out for a holiday in Niece or going back to the many markets across the middle east, most people aren't monsters, quite the opposite!
Because this is what people are like. The ice bucket challenge did raise a load of money, but the vast majority of people didn't actually donate a penny.
You're using the abnormal to prove a point really. People do things because they see other people doing the same thing and ascribe meaning to it.
People often don't really need a proper reason to get a tattoo. People get them little to no reason at all.
Soldato
It's not "research" if you think I'm sitting here Googling for arguments. These are mostly things I knew at the time of the NATO bombing which I followed very closely. A real response to my post, imo, would be to point out flaws in it. Instead, your response is essentially "you don't know enough" without anything more. I brought facts, you brought dismissive tone. As to the last part asking me "who is at fault for the problem in Libya" you "know which path to go down." This isn't a teacher-student conversation. I've brought a number of verifiable facts that contradict the contentions you have been making. I've seen no evidence you have any real understanding of the situation given you've been making bald statements provably false such as arguing "you wont find many Libyans who aren't in favour of the bombing" or that the massive NATO bombing campaign, foreign soldiers and freezing of Libyan assets and funding of the rebels merely provided "a platform for transition".
It is clear to me that you have a conception that Gaddafi was a widely loathed tyrant and the Libyan populace were crying out for intervention to free them. This is false. Further, I'm pretty sure you are not aware of the sheer transformation that has taken place in Libya from being one of North Africa's most prosperous nations to a failed state. Very few Libyans are grateful for such a change, nor were they grateful at the time. The Rebels were an Eastern group of militants who seized power with Western and Qatari backing (including the actual Qatar army to bulk up the numbers). It was not a general uprising. Not even close.
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Soldato
Would I be right in guessing that you find tattoos distasteful in general?
Soldato
Blood keeps for just over a month, they may be full now but not indefinitely.
In general, but that's not why I think this. I find discrete tattoos in much better taste than the obnoxious awful ones you see people proudly showing off.
Soldato
I have done no such thing. This is a serious failure of comprehension of my post on your part. You argued that the world is "better" today than 500 years ago because of "collective morality". Nothing in my post agreed with you that this change was due to "collective morality". I was very thorough. Nor are you correct when you write "i know exactly what your[sic] saying and agree. There's[sic] lots of factors". I know you don't understand because I'm not saying "there are lots of factors", I'm saying the one you singled out is vastly insignificant compared to the two very specific factors I gave. And I supported those points. I've seen no support from you for your contention - only assertion that it is so.
I've not seen news feeds or much lately, so I've missed out.
Erm, why a Bee as a tattoo?
Seems even dafter when Bees are dying en masse.
Soldato
You still haven't answered who is at fault for the current situation? If you could just answer that, it would make my response a lot easier.
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Caporegime
http://www.westmonster.com/migrant-boats-banned-from-sicily-during-g7-over-security-fears/
Migrant boats won't be landing in Sicily while the G7 is on due to fears for the leaders' safety. Landings will resume once the G7 is over. Funny that, and touches on what Morrissey was saying.
Migrant boats won't be landing in Sicily while the G7 is on due to fears for the leaders' safety. Landings will resume once the G7 is over. Funny that, and touches on what Morrissey was saying.
Soldato
What is informedness of the general population? This is collective morality. This is exactly how morality becomes better, people talking to each other and then agreeing upon it. Hence why the internet has a sparked a growth in morality, we're able to bounce ideas off each other and find a common ground. Anthropology with morality are great books to read.
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Soldato
I didn't answer it because it's a massive open ended question that merely diverts from your statements being grossly incorrect. I posted to show that they were and hopefully cause you to review your assumptions. I've seen no evidence of willingness to engage with that, only a brief assertion that my "research is shallow" and a demand I tell you who is at fault for "the problem".
Soldato
What i would say to you, is read what defectors, activists, academics and analysts said at the time of his fall. Don't read stuff from a year ago, read the stuff from around the end of 2011.
Soldato
Would have been quicker to google than make that daft post.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...manchester-bee-symbol-meaning-tattoo-11793163
Personally I think the tattoos are great. I'm proud of the city that I call home and the last few days have shown the best of us. This is a great way to raise further money and show some solidarity.
Soldato
Is this directed at me? Because I've read plenty yet we seem once again to be returning to me making specific and supportable statements that show your assumptions are wrong; and you responding with suggestions that I need to read more.
You made statements. I offered facts that contradicted them. You've offered nothing more in response to that other than implying you know better than me and I need to do more research. Why you think anyone would accept as an authority someone who has been proven wrong and argues almost entirely by assertion and dismissal, I have no idea.