Manchester Bombing *** Please remain respectful and refrain from antagonising posts ***

StriderX said:
Wouldnt have to, but we were largely responsible for the beginnings of the ECHR... we won't be leaving as that would be rather non-conservative, also being the only non member in Europe (even Russia is a member), would look downright silly. (Should note that Poland is currently not a member, and i don't know why)
Click to expand...

Sure, that's a different debate.

But i just said an off the cuff remark which i seem to have been hounded for regarding why we have trouble deporting some of the extreme guys.
 
StriderX said:
Wouldnt have to, but we were largely responsible for the beginnings of the ECHR... we won't be leaving as that would be rather non-conservative, also being the only non member in Europe (even Russia is a member), would look downright silly. (Should note that Poland Belarus is currently not a member, and i don't know why)
Click to expand...

Cos Belarus isn't exactly great when it comes to human rights. Russia is a member but isn't exactly in compliance.
 
Trusty said:
but if you are in the EU, you have to be subscribe to the ECHR. If we we were not in the EU, we wouldn't have to be involved in the ECHR.

That was my understanding anyway..
Click to expand...
Yes that is correct, but you are completely missing the point. Leaving the EU will not have one jot of difference as to whether we subscribe to the ECHR or not.

It is absolutely absurd to suggest we are going to leave the Coucil of Europe. It has completely different foundations to the EU (post-ww2 beginnings). It has completely different aims and leaving, which we wouldn't in any event, would make us look like the Saudi Arabia of Europe - it would be an international political disaster. Never going to happen! Tabloid paper nonsense. I would eat my 'internet hat' :p
 
Nitefly said:
Yes that is correct, but you are completely missing the point. Leaving the EU will not have one jot of difference as to whether we subscribe to the ECHR or not.

It is absolutely absurd to suggest we are going to leave the Coucil of Europe. It has completely different foundations to the EU (post-ww2 beginnings). It has completely different aims and leaving, which we wouldn't in any event, would make us look like the Saudi Arabia of Europe - it would be an international political disaster. Never going to happen! Tabloid paper nonsense. I would eat my 'internet hat' :p
Click to expand...

I'm not missing the point at all. It's irrelevant whether it's theoretical that we leave the ECHR or not. We can't at the moment because we are in EU.
 
dowie said:
Cos Belarus isn't exactly great when it comes to human rights. Russia is a member but isn't exactly in compliance.
Click to expand...

In my anecdotal evidence they are, I should have ( :D ) had a 10 year ban but that would have stopped my right to a family life.

As for Belarus they are not a member because they have the death penalty.
 
Amp34 said:
No one has any issue with dealing with people on a watch list. The issue is when "dealing" with them involves throwing away centuries of judicial history, especially when we do t know why people are on there or how many.

If there are people on a watch list thatabre a particular worry then deal with them legally - collect evidence and try/convict them. If there isn't enough evidence to convict them yet then collect more.

Engaging with the Islamic community, although it has its faults (such as prevent), seems to be working in some ways because people are reporting these people prior to them committing acts. Pretty much every attack has been perpetuated by people already known to the police, with people either notifying them in the past about their worries or reporting them at the time (such as the guy with the knives a few weeks ago).

Certainly more funding to the security services and police (perhaps take it from the mass data collection budget) so they can target and monitor those on the list is a reasonable idea. Locking thousands up without trial is not...

The current rate of deaths, although reprehensible, is just not enough to warrant such a destruction of our democratic laws. You'd probably save more lives if you just rounded up everyone on "gang" list for example, yet no one is suggesting we suspend our judicial system for that are they?

You're not a "nazi" because you're suggesting doing something about people on a watch list. You're a "nazi" because you're suggesting tactics used largely by dictatorial regimes and quasi democracies to quell dissent and remove people that are considered "unwanted". Add a little bit of xenophobia/islamaphobia into the mix (specific to certain posters insisting it should only affect a certain type of terrorist watchlist) and you have your reasons.
Click to expand...

The ball is firmly in the court of the Muslim community at rooting out these extremists and if they aren't doing it adequately then a harsh and blunt instrument will be attractive to a lot of people after this recent atrocity.
 
Trusty said:
I'm not missing the point at all. It's irrelevant whether it's theoretical that we leave the ECHR or not. We can't at the moment because we are in EU.
Click to expand...
Buts it's a moot point as, in reality, leaving the EU has no bearing as to whether we would leave the Council of Europe or not.

Sure we could leave but... really? Really? It would be like leaving NATO. Actually, leaving NATO is way more likely.

All of that said, crazy political times and nothing is impossible I suppose.
 
Channel 4 news. Wow, what a bunch of ******* insensitive idiots. You just know that there was much hand-wringing, but I guess they are too right-on to ask that dumb **** in the Burqa to move.

PXDApqw.jpg


vWtJNK6.jpg


WwIoB43.jpg
 
Malevolence said:
Channel 4 news. Wow, what a bunch of ******* insensitive idiots. You just know that they were too right-on to consider asking that dumb **** in the Burqa to move.

PXDApqw.jpg


vWtJNK6.jpg


WwIoB43.jpg
Click to expand...

Wow. That's shocking. I'm no apologist for Muslims... But it does look like a caricature and someone dressing up to stir up racial hatred. Looks more like a dude too. The glasses and the top half just looks odd. If it is a muslim.... I am lost for words.
 
dalehitchy1 said:
Wow. That's shocking. I'm no apologist for Muslims... But it does look like a caricature and someone dressing up to stir up racial hatred. If it is a muslim.... I am lost for words.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, it doesnt even matter if shes muslim or a stooge/puppet, shes dressed up to stir hatred regardless. And why on earth has she been allowed to do so by the news? Why have they brought her to the front row :eek:. They should have told her to **** off with that.
 
dalehitchy1 said:
Wow. That's shocking. I'm no apologist for Muslims... But it does look like a caricature and someone dressing up to stir up racial hatred. Looks more like a dude too. The glasses and the top half just looks odd. If it is a muslim.... I am lost for words.
Click to expand...


it is a muslim, I'm not sure she was necessarily trying to provoke vs simply being rather stupid, she was interviewed on BBC news
 
dowie said:
it is a muslim, I'm not sure she was necessarily trying to provoke vs simply being rather stupid, she was interviewed on BBC news
Click to expand...

Are you sure? It just looks odd to me. The Muslims I know wouldn't wear glasses on the outside like that. And the bling that they are wearing too just looks rather odd and not typical of a muslim woman to wear. Plus whats that on her shoulders... A cape?

Anyway... Shameful either way.
 
dalehitchy1 said:
Are you sure? It just looks odd to me. The Muslims I know wouldn't wear glasses on the outside like that. And the bling that they are wearing too just looks rather odd and not typical of a muslim woman to wear. Plus whats that on her shoulders... A cape?

Anyway... Shameful either way.
Click to expand...

Who said it's a woman? This is the thing about those burqas, who can't tell who, or what, is lurking underneath.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom