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Mantle Feedback/Bugs

lol indeed :p. But irrespective of comparisons and what not it still should be (in the context of Mantle) that if you're graph dropping in a thread where the graph is not explanatory as to its origin then a one line caveat is both polite and necessary. As said before, you know as well as I do that when graph dropping hardly anyone clicks the actual article link unless they're looking for holes to pick at.

Herein lies the problem. If people had actually looked at the article, read the link i gave them and watched the benchmarking sequence they used, then we likely wouldn't be having this debate.

Thing is matt, this isnt your forum, people are free to raise whatever points they want, as long as they dont start throwing needless insults in

Raising a point that a posted set of info might be unrepresentative of general gameplay was a totally valid point, considering it was not mentioned within the post that originated the info

You're having a pop at rusty for not letting itgo, but it takes two to tango

I never said it was my forum. I was just sticking to the topic, posting a benchmark with a link to an article about Mantle and its performance vs DX.

It was not mentioned because i linked to the article, which contained the link to the video. It was a 30 second sequence of a run through the resource heavy part of the map, on foot. A good indicator of performance as its pure gameplay and not sitting on the spawn screen or waiting in base that would have been part of pgi's benchmark comparison. Again this comes back to the reason of why it was not a particularly relevant comparison to what they were testing. Its basic benchmarking procedure.

I only responded to Rusty telling me to stop being rude. I just replied explaining why it was not a relevant comparison and that was not actually being rude just stating facts based on the different benchmark comparisons.
 
Herein lies the problem. If people had actually looked at the article, read the link i gave them and watched the benchmarking sequence they used, then we likely wouldn't be having this debate.

Re-read the post you've quoted.

You're hiding behind the fact you linked it but as I've already said if you're re-posting / graph dropping on another forum (here) then it's your responsibility to represent the data in a way in which it was intended to be viewed. You didn't do this hence the issue. A 1 line caveat would have sufficed. Oh well, move on. Perhaps just bear that in mind for the future.
 
Re-read the post you've quoted.

You're hiding behind the fact you linked it but as I've already said if you're re-posting / graph dropping on another forum (here) then it's your responsibility to represent the data in a way in which it was intended to be viewed. You didn't do this hence the issue. A 1 line caveat would have sufficed. Oh well, move on. Perhaps just bear that in mind for the future.

No there was no need for a caveat. If the person is interested in the graph its up to them to read the article and scrutinise it if needs be. I'm not going to copy and paste the whole thing for them to read, that's up to the person who feels the need to challenge the data, for whatever reason. I provided the source in the original post so it was not just a random graph without a link. Remember Rusty in future if you want to pick holes in something it pays to read the article first before casting judgement.
 
No there was no need for a caveat. If the person is interested in the graph its up to them to read the article and scrutinise it if needs be. I'm not going to copy and paste the whole thing for them to read, that's up to the person who feels the need to challenge the data, for whatever reason. I provided the source in the original post so it was not just a random graph without a link. Remember Rusty in future if you want to pick holes in something it pays to read the article first before casting judgement.

I've never picked holes in it lol. Where are you getting this stuff from?

I was originally incorrect regarding the comparison to pgi's benchmark because you misrepresented the data by graph dropping a MP benchmark without a caveat stating it wasn't really represenative of MP gameplay.

How have you got to 'copy and paste the whole thing' when all I said was a '1 line caveat' explaining the origin of the data. There's a gulf in text between the two :p.

This is your responsibility if you're reposting it unless your intention was to purposefully misrepresent it to make Mantle look better. I'm not saying you were by any means so don't interpret it as such but what I am saying is that if you're graph dropping it's important to represent the data in the correct way.

As I said, move on and take it as a point for the future and then there's no issue from me, you or anybody else.
 
Just tried the star swarm benchmark since reading about it in this thread.

First up DX
Average FPS: 37.30

===========================================================
Oxide Games
Star Swarm Stress Test - ©2013
C:\Users\xxxxxx\Documents\Star Swarm\Output_14_02_04_1020.txt
Version 1.00
02/04/2014 10:20
===========================================================

== Hardware Configuration =================================
GPU: AMD Radeon R9 200 Series
CPU: GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz
Physical Cores: 4
Logical Cores: 8
Physical Memory: 8537174016
Allocatable Memory: 8796092891136
===========================================================


== Configuration ==========================================
API: DirectX
Scenario: ScenarioFollow.csv
User Input: Disabled
Resolution: 1920x1080
Fullscreen: True
GameCore Update: 16.6 ms
Bloom Quality: High
PointLight Quality: High
ToneCurve Quality: High
Glare Overdraw: 16
Shading Samples: 64
Shade Quality: Mid
Deferred Contexts: Disabled
Temporal AA Duration: 16
Temporal AA Time Slice: 2
Detailed Frame Info: Off
===========================================================


== Results ================================================
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 13430

Average FPS: 37.30
Average Unit Count: 4286
Maximum Unit Count: 5614
Average Batches/MS: 664.74
Maximum Batches/MS: 1686.09
Average Batch Count: 20231
Maximum Batch Count: 168319
===========================================================

Now when i ran the Mantle test first time around it crashed out with this error message


The second run completed as expected with the following result
Average FPS: 56.23

===========================================================
Oxide Games
Star Swarm Stress Test - ©2013
C:\Users\xxxxxx\Documents\Star Swarm\Output_14_02_04_1028.txt
Version 1.00
02/04/2014 10:28
===========================================================

== Hardware Configuration =================================
GPU: AMD Radeon R9 200 Series
CPU: GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz
Physical Cores: 4
Logical Cores: 8
Physical Memory: 8537174016
Allocatable Memory: 8796092891136
===========================================================


== Configuration ==========================================
API: Mantle
Scenario: ScenarioFollow.csv
User Input: Disabled
Resolution: 1920x1080
Fullscreen: True
GameCore Update: 16.6 ms
Bloom Quality: High
PointLight Quality: High
ToneCurve Quality: High
Glare Overdraw: 16
Shading Samples: 64
Shade Quality: Mid
Deferred Contexts: Disabled
Temporal AA Duration: 16
Temporal AA Time Slice: 2
Detailed Frame Info: Off
===========================================================


== Results ================================================
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 20242

Average FPS: 56.23
Average Unit Count: 4852
Maximum Unit Count: 6042
Average Batches/MS: 1048.04
Maximum Batches/MS: 2979.27
Average Batch Count: 20964
Maximum Batch Count: 88807
===========================================================

When it ran properly Mantle Looked a lot smoother over DX which is obviously shown by the average FPS as well.

Should also say it picks my cpu up at the incorrect speed as its sat at 4.5ghz
 
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Rusty0611 with KFA2 GTX 780 (1241/1800), if this is still your rig spec. and you don't have an amd gcn card atm, then will you PLEASE LEAVE, so that we can share and try to solve MANTLE bugs among each other, share some feedback which requires MANTLE use in the first place. Go start a thread for "even 780 Dx beats R9 290X with Mantle" or "Mantle not necessary, Dx is great with Nvapi" "I am happy with my 780, beat all Mantle cards".... stop it. No telling LtMatt anything as he is right, no need to tell him to stop bickering, as he is not doing that.
 
If someone feels the need to challenge the data for whatever reason its up to them to read the article in question. I provide the graph and the source, like i always do. Nothing is going to change on that front.

I watched their benchmarking sequence and i feel it is representative real world performance you're likely to get on that map in that area. I'd rather see a intense, repeatable, short and consistent benchmark than a long drawn out bench that is going to be inconsistent and hard to reproduce reliably. When trying to highlight the performance of Mantle we want consistency and in this instance this benchmark definitely provided it. They even uploaded it so we can copy it. This is great so we can copy it if needs be and share results. Its also why it was a pointless comparison comparing it to pgi's results. I mean no harm to pgi when i say that so i hope hes not still offended by it. Nothing wrong with his benchmark at all, it just can't be compared reliably to this one.
 
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Rusty0611 with KFA2 GTX 780 (1241/1800), if this is still your rig spec. and you don't have an amd gcn card atm, then will you PLEASE LEAVE, so that we can share and try to solve MANTLE bugs among each other, share some feedback which requires MANTLE use in the first place. Go start a thread for "even 780 Dx beats R9 290X with Mantle" or "Mantle not necessary, Dx is great with Nvapi" "I am happy with my 780, beat all Mantle cards".... stop it. No telling LtMatt anything as he is right, no need to tell him to stop bickering, as he is not doing that.

You've made the mistake of assuming that just because somebody has a nVidia GPU that they're pro nVidia and anti AMD. That's a very childish statement to make.

Last time I checked there weren't any exclusions on posting in threads.

If someone feels the need to challenge the data for whatever reason its up to them to read the article in question. I provide the graph and the source, like i always do. Nothing is going to change on that front.

Well that is a shame as it means that in certain cases there will continue to be misunderstandings for the reasons mentioned before. It's not difficult to post a 1 line caveat where required (like this case).

I think it's quite useful actually but that's your call. :)
 
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Well that is a shame as it means that in certain cases there will continue to be misunderstandings for the reasons mentioned before. It's not difficult to post a 1 line caveat where required (like this case).

I think it's quite useful actually but that's your call. :)

Yes if someone wants to scrutinise something or find fault with it, the responsibility lies with them to do so by reading the linked article. :)

What's your thoughts on Mantle then Andy after using it.

Interested to hear both Andy's and Rustys feedback on Mantle.
 
Yes if someone wants to scrutinise something or find fault with it, the responsibility lies with them to do so by reading the linked article. :)



Interested to hear both Andy's and Rustys feedback on Mantle.

Definitely i'm looking forward to their opinions after using it..

Last time I checked there weren't any exclusions on posting in threads.

Maybe there should be exclusions though tbh Rusty, nothing against you bud, but this is a thread for Mantle feedback and bugs, but for the last page it's been nothing but **** posted.
 
Yes if someone wants to scrutinise something or find fault with it, the responsibility lies with them to do so by reading the linked article. :)

'Find fault' is not actually what happened though is it? Don't be so defensive over a benchmark - it's not yours! :)

Interested to hear both Andy's and Rustys feedback on Mantle.

I have no opinion having not used it but looking at the data it's difficult to see how much benefit it's going to have for your average high end GPU user with an overclocked i5/i7 who uses 1080/1440 on max settings.

Of course this is the first release so I don't necessarily agree with all the hysteria regarding bugs etc. But I work in the software development / testing arm for a major UK life and pensions IT migration project so bugs is my day job :p. I'm perhaps more tolerant to the idea of them.
 
Maybe there should be exclusions though tbh Rusty, nothing against you bud, but this is a thread for Mantle feedback and bugs, but for the last page it's been nothing but **** posted.

It hasn't really though. It was all about Mantle and there isn't a Mantle GD thread. This one fits the bill.

Feedback is a wide ranging term so to me encompasses everything. The mods directed Mantle discussion here after the old thread closed.

As Andy said: "it takes two to tango" :p.
 
You've made the mistake of assuming that just because somebody has a nVidia GPU that they're pro nVidia and anti AMD. That's a very childish statement to make.

Last time I checked there weren't any exclusions on posting in threads.



Well that is a shame as it means that in certain cases there will continue to be misunderstandings for the reasons mentioned before. It's not difficult to post a 1 line caveat where required (like this case).

I think it's quite useful actually but that's your call. :)
You are not here to help us try to fix bugs or provide feedback. This thread is not for posting downfalls of mantle or caveats of mantle or discussing benchmark results in context of those assumed downfalls.

I posted a freezing/white screens issue I had, and it got overlooked and got lost between these unnecessary (for this thread not in general) posts, so I am angry, not being able to get help from your fellow peers if they've already resolved the issue does that to you. So you are more than welcome to move on to Mantle Benchmark Thread and post your points and remarks there, I haven't read them completely since they were out of context of this thread, but some of your points have face value and may be worth discussing really but not just here.
 
'Find fault' is not actually what happened though is it? Don't be so defensive over a benchmark - it's not yours! :)

I have no opinion having not used it but looking at the data it's difficult to see how much benefit it's going to have for your average high end GPU user with an overclocked i5/i7 who uses 1080/1440 on max settings.

Find fault / scrutinise / not representative. All the same. Its not my benchmark, but im just explaining the context of it and why its not reliable to compare it to something else.

If you have no opinion having not used it then >> time to leave the thread. Perhaps the Mantle Benchmark thread would be better for you. If you actually check that out, you'll see real world examples of the performance difference in exactly the scenario's you mentioned, regarding the components you mentioned. I saw a 14% increase with an i7 and a single 290 card in the Mantle benchmark thread over the same benchmarked scene on DX.
 
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