Mantle Feedback/Bugs

[Rusty0611]

Perfect comment!

For all the bickers that goes of for Nvidia vs AMD and these dumb features. I think Mantle is pretty damn good for a free boost for modern cards and it does present some interesting possibilities for the future, if they are used or not that is another question that needs to be answered. But does this instantly make AMD the better card? No, it just gives it that one extra pro when it comes to comparing a card. You should not be buying a card for Mantle though as it is a good year or so off before it becomes an actual benefit and not just a pro point when it comes to purchasing.

Its the same with Nvidia shadow play, for me that seems like a better feature as I would make more use out of streaming/video recording than I would have Mantle atm (I don't play much BF4). But it isn't a pro for me when it comes to buying a card as OBS and such do a better job for my needs.

Mantle should not sell cards and anyone who comments out of jealousy or buyers remorse of their card is just dumb. Every card has it pros and cons so just go and post about the pros and leave all the negative and comparison junk alone.

This is from someone who owns a 290 who thinks it is a decent card and Mantle does sound interesting in the future. I'm also not enjoying the reference cooler noise though which seems to be that tiny bit higher again with the 14.1 drivers compared to the previous 13 ones.

Agree with your post.

Now I am not going to argue how 10% is gathered, and assume it is correct for your setup and resolution, cpu etc. It is "a number" for JUST ONE GAME, and not going to discuss that game being designed Dx in mind or not and assume it is perfectly Mantle capable and optimized to fullest, and I am going to repeat this again, that perfectly correct number is JUST FOR ONE GAME ONLY.

Now I say that StarSwarm results are marginally higher knowing full well it is not a game alpha or anything, but its just a tech demo.

Now that makes two things running on Mantle giving huge difference in percentile gains. Third is on the way, Thief, and STILL it shouldn't be the deciding factor either.

Going into an alpha stage for an actual game, it is unknown what will they do about marginal differences;
1- They may do two version like game where Dx has classic motion blur, Mantle has cinematic motion blur etc.
2- Nerf the tech demo stuff and actually release a game, same settings and effects across Dx and Mantle, which btw they strongly go against it
3- Something I haven't come up with but they have.

All speculation for the actual game atm, but still you can't deny the huge gains, hugely different to 10% you mention.

Considering Mantle is still in early phase, BF4 may have just done CPU optimizations (SS too and nothing more added on top) but they may slowly make progress in GPU optimizations and make even much higher gains for games.

As above - I'm not saying the gains ARE 10% I'm saying that IF they were 10% then this wouldn't be that interesting to me personally. IF they are more then that would be something to potentially sway me.

It helps if you read my posts and not with the assumption that I'm anti-AMD from the off. The words I am typing are not saying what you are responding to.

 

[ICDP]

Anything is of benefit. What I meant, is that a benefit weighty enough to throw it into my own purchase decisions?

10% is neither here nor there IMO but anything up towards 20% becomes in my eyes more worthwhile.

I would agree with this, 10% is meh but anything over is a definite benefit. As a beta I would expect these performance increase to improve as mantle matures. I would really like to see it take off and Nvidia jump on board if AMD stick to their "open source" claims. That way we do not get locked into an AMD only scenario when we get around to GPU purchases.

IMHO the mantle release has been great as a proof of concept when we take in both BF4 and Star Swarm results. It is far too buggy for too many people to be called an outright success but AMD backed themselves into a corner with their usual poor execution.

 

[uksoldierboy]

Rusty feel free to ask for maps you'd like benchmarked on BF4, my system is imo, highly overclocked.

4770K @4.6
Asus Ref 290X 1150/1400
Corsair vengenace pro series 1866 @2133Mhz 9-10-10-27 1T

From my testing of BF4 Multiplayer, i've seen around 15-20% on some maps and up to 25% on others (China raising dlc) 1080P, max settings, 4XMSAA, FOV90.

I'll do as many maps as i can in a sec, i play as engineer mostly always in with the action.

I know it's not the most reliable means of benchmarking but at least it'll give you some indication of what you can expect from Mantle on a 290X.

 

[Rusty0611]

I would agree with this, 10% is meh but anything over is a definite benefit. As a beta I hope mantle I would expect these performance increase to improve as mantle matures. I would really like to see it take off and Nvidia jump on board if AMD stick to their "open source" claims. That way we do not get locked into an AMD only scenario when we get around to GPU purchases.

IMHO the mantle release has been great as a proof of concept when we take in both BF4 and Star Swarm results. It is far too buggy for too many people to be called an outright success but AMD backed themselves into a corner with their usual poor execution.

Agreed on the proof of concept part.

As I said before I don't buy into all the hysteria regarding bugs. They happen. But my job revolves around finding and fixing bugs in the calculations in a life/pensions admin application so I'm more understanding about the processes involved. Of course the crashing is unacceptable but hopefully they can knock that on the head quickly.

If they can evolve it and improve it over time then it could be a game changer but still it needs nVidia to adopt it to really, REALLY take off which I don't see happening.

 

[flopper]

Mantle is fine.
no need to use it if you dont want to.
using it for BF4 we have a scenario for most users where it adds 10% to a lot more, 20% for my system which only crossfire would been able to beat while being smoother than DX and crossfire/sli.

Not bad for 370euro right

 

[Woodsta888]

Rusty


As above - I'm not saying the gains ARE 10% I'm saying that IF they were 10% then this wouldn't be that interesting to me personally. IF they are more then that would be something to potentially sway me.

It helps if you read my posts and not with the assumption that I'm anti-AMD from the off. The words I am typing are not saying what you are responding to.[/QUOTE]

It's not you are anti AMD. TYhis is a mantle feedback bugs thread. Of which you cant really contribute to. Of course read and gain knowledge as the mantle testers are trying to get as much tangible info they can on something that is beta but your input isn't best in this thread.

The contributors are just tryoing to get something tangible out of something at a very early and largly unuasable stage. People who are eligble for mantle are reading with interest in the work those that have the time, have deidicated themselves and dared to attempt a bench or two on an alpha beta, let us not so clever folk take a peek at what mantle could bring in a better release. I don't see how you can benefit THIS thread. Most tech sites haven't done anything in great detail because it is largely pointless in their view to produce performance results on soemthing that isn't working properly and their following will draw in correct conclusions from. Only one or two sites did a BF4 beta test but hell, how many people screamed you'll need an i7 and jumped that expensive gun?

This thread is largely off topic, I expect only benches, feedback and bug reporting and fixing solutions from those who have mantle. If someones done a bench wrong so be it. They aren't being paid at a tech site to do it and did the best they can, and I thank them for sharing.

 

[humbug]

I would agree with this, 10% is meh but anything over is a definite benefit. As a beta I hope mantle I would expect these performance increase to improve as mantle matures. I would really like to see it take off and Nvidia jump on board if AMD stick to their "open source" claims. That way we do not get locked into an AMD only scenario when we get around to GPU purchases.

IMHO the mantle release has been great as a proof of concept when we take in both BF4 and Star Swarm results. It is far too buggy for too many people to be called an outright success but AMD backed themselves into a corner with their usual poor execution.

Well, for a start there is no problem with the Oxide Star Swarm app in Mantle, at least not for me or anyone that i have seen so far, where as i am getting huge problems in BF4.

You putting the blame on AMD despite BF4's very troubled history is rash at best, its premature to blame AMD for Mantle not working in a game that has been a broken disaster from day one, i'm sure you would agree, no?

Next, Mantle in Bf4 where it does work is more than 10%, in multiplayer.

The difference is; in single player the CPU is not really used at all, so there is no bottleneck, while in MP the CPU is used a lot, its there where Mantle really maters.

 

[Rroff]

Am not sure why they is so much negativity towards Mantle?

Most of my negativity is towards AMD not Mantle - not even specifically a GPU thing i.e. all the talk about bulldoxer and how that turned out. If they hadn't talked it up so much I'd have been much less scathing of a bumpy initial release.

 

[humbug]

Most of my negativity is towards AMD not Mantle - not even specifically a GPU thing i.e. all the talk about bulldoxer and how that turned out. If they hadn't talked it up so much I'd have been much less scathing of a bumpy initial release.

At the same time they ignore or argue against the +50% / +100% performance increase results they see in the Oxide Star Swarm App and the significant performance improvements in BF4 MP.

Its the same rhetoric as usual on this forum.

 

[Rusty0611]

It's not you are anti AMD. TYhis is a mantle feedback bugs thread. Of which you cant really contribute to. Of course read and gain knowledge as the mantle testers are trying to get as much tangible info they can on something that is beta but your input isn't best in this thread.

Mate - you were the one that went ballistic and said I was posting 'AMD envy drivel'. That's worse than anything I'm being accused of... (which is largely due to misinterpretation of my comments)

From Dictionary.com:

feedback (noun):

- a reaction or response to a particular process or activity

Therefore I believe my posts are on topic. We don't have a specific general discussion thread for Mantle and the mods closed the old thread as it was too long directing to here. Here is where we discuss it.

 

[shankly1985]

Most of my negativity is towards AMD not Mantle - not even specifically a GPU thing i.e. all the talk about bulldoxer and how that turned out. If they hadn't talked it up so much I'd have been much less scathing of a bumpy initial release.

But most of the issue we seeing is Dice and Bf4 not AMD/Mantle
The crashing and Stutter and fog bug is Dice I would think so.

Anyway just tested out Single GPU and performance was give or take 10fps both felt like crap on Ultra on single 7950.
One thing worth noting here
Crossfire enabled Ultra DirectX = 85fps
Crossfire enabled Ultra Mantle = 120fps cfg locked

Single GPU - DirectX 45fps
Single GPU - Mantle between 50/55fps

So me Enabling Mantle and Crossfire I am seeing a massive boost compared to DirectX were I getting an extra 40fps to Mantle extra 70fps

Wow!

 

[andybird123]

At the same time they ignore or argue against the +50% / +100% performance increase results they see in the Oxide Star Swarm App and the significant performance improvements in BF4 MP.

Its the same rhetoric as usual on this forum.

Sorry that some of us choose to ask questions instead of blindly accepting any and all information that is ON THE INTERNETZ

 

[humbug]

Sorry that some of us choose to ask questions instead of blindly accepting any and all information that is ON THE INTERNETZ

Read the post above you, do you accept that?

 

[bendy711]

No idea sorry. Maybe try reset video options in game and then restart and reapply settings?

I cant even get into the game long enough to change any settings

 

[MOOGLEYS]

I have reloaded and still have random black screens after trying the mantle drivers. It seems the drivers have nerfed my card. Bit of a pain in the butt....

 

[andybird123]

Read the post above you, do you accept that?

The problem with the way the info is being presented is that it doesnt tell the whole story, the Swarm demo has very clearly been put together in a way that hasnt been properly optimised on DX, no command lists, unneccessary addition of light sources for very little visual improvement etc

For a setup most similar to mine the bf4 results are not miles off (e.g. Nowhere near 50%) that I get on DX where im able to replicate them

There is more to the story than just OMGZ MANTELZ R T'BEST which is the way it is being represented

I'll be quite happy if/when mantle has an impact on my Amd rig, at the same time I see nothing to really warrant switching my Nvidia rig to Amd now or even in the next year or two, I have an open mind as to what could happen, not a blinkered one that assumes the future based on a tiny snippet of info I wish to be true

 

[shankly1985]

I have reloaded and still have random black screens after trying the mantle drivers. It seems the drivers have nerfed my card. Bit of a pain in the butt....

Can you test your PSU? in the past when I had the black screen it was a fault on my PSU cable. I changed the cable for another "Modular" and it's been fine since.

When I have had a black screen that was Driver related or OC related the screen would black screen but then come back on with Driver stopped responding.

Because you not getting this I 100% sure it's a PSU you should be looking at.

 

[ICDP]

Well, for a start there is no problem with the Oxide Star Swarm app in Mantle, at least not for me or anyone that i have seen so far, where as i am getting huge problems in BF4.

You putting the blame on AMD despite BF4's very troubled history is rash at best, its premature to blame AMD for Mantle not working in a game that has been a broken disaster from day one, i'm sure you would agree, no?

Next, Mantle in BF4 where it does work is more than 10%, in multiplayer.

The difference is; in single player the CPU is not really used at all, so there is no bottleneck, while in MP the CPU is used a lot, its there where Mantle really maters.

I mentioned Star Swarm and to be honest if it was just BF4 I would still think it was a success as proof of concept. The issues I am referring too are not just in BF4, many (myself included) have been getting random lockups in other games with 14.1. I can't even complete a single run in TR benchmark without a display failure using 14.1 Beta. Going back to 13.12 cured that problem instantly.

So as proof of concept Mantle = success
As an actual driver 14.1 = poor, even as a beta.

I know the BF4 issues are down to DICE for the most part. That does not excuse the very poor execution from AMD on the mantle release.

Meant to be out by Dec: Failed
Meant to be out my Jan: Failed
Blamed DICE for the delays: DICE release a BF4 mantle update but AMD forgot about the drivers: Failed

You can claim Dice were at fault for most of these failures and indeed that may actually be true. That does not change the fact that these failures are now something AMD must overcome in the eyes of a large percentage of the PC hardware community. Of course there are individuals who would never have accepted Mantle as anything other than a failure even if the release was perfect. Never the less my point stands, perception is reality and the perception is that AMD's mantle release could have went a lot better.

The fact that AMD chose the exceptionally buggy BF4 to showcase it is unfortunate. Even with that I still deem mantle a definite success as a proof of concept. Here's hoping Thief 4 truly shows Mantle off to it's true potential.

 

[MOOGLEYS]

Can you test your PSU? in the past when I had the black screen it was a fault on my PSU cable. I changed the cable for another "Modular" and it's been fine since.

When I have had a black screen that was Driver related or OC related the screen would black screen but then come back on with Driver stopped responding.

Because you not getting this I 100% sure it's a PSU you should be looking at.

Will have a look but nothing inside has changed and it was working fine before I tried mantle.

I think it might have just died and its coincidence I changed drivers rather than the cause tbh.

 

[Martini1991]

Football Manager 14 plays worse in 14.1, things are a bit "laggy", they weren't before.

Like the Match Engine has stutters that weren't there before etc.