I suppose you think of yourself as superior to a retail manager then? Don't stereotype people, just because you come across a few idiots doesn't mean everyone is the same.
May be in trouble at work
- Thread starter yer_averagejoe
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I suppose you think of yourself as superior to a retail manager then? Don't stereotype people, just because you come across a few idiots doesn't mean everyone is the same.
I currently work in mobile telecoms, but have previously worked in both supermarkets and fast food. Now I will say that there were (and are) a few bad managers about (such as the ones you describe above), and I've worked for some truely shocking ones (although not for long, as either I moved or they were fired). However, there were far more good managers that people thought were bad because they expected them to work.
In this thread I've seen a lot of people claiming bad managers, while at the same time showing pretty poor work ethics that would explain the interaction they seem to be having with their bosses.
Yes, but thats a totally different subject to what we were discussing, you said good managers come from having good employees, which I still think is BS, I would consider myself as a good employee, I would always do the extra hours, come in early to get things sorted (i.e. setting up the bar for a friday night) yet the managers I have worked with are still bad managers irregardless of the staff.
Also with the OP the question was not that he was expected to work but was the manor in which it was apporached.
KaHn
Ok, a lot of Retail managers in my experience aren't very bright and many do little work and take the credit for everyone else killing themselves to get work done.
Retail management don't care about the staff though, or how hard you work, or how much you help out, they care about meeting targets so that the manager above them gives them a pat on the back and a bonus.
Homer Simpson said:
Really though, the managers can't just expect you to work past your shift. If you were making a go of it and trying to get a career going there then you'd be silly not to.
I don't know if they're allowed to contract you to work "reasonable overtime" after the shift but still pay you, or something, but unless this is the case - I'm sure you're well within your rights to go home once you've done what you're contracted to do.
I've worked where managers thought they were God and we were their peons, but they only got the same respect as they gave us. As a matter of fact that store went through 3 sets of managers in my time there, the first was great, really high morale in the store, then the next was a typical management type and tried to sort everything out to the extent of no chatting to each other during work. Morale went, people got fired, then the management left. Next management was even worse, which is when I quit!
common sense would be the employer had more people working the shift so that the job was done on time for when everyone's shifts had ended mate.
If you all laze about and dont finish then you get warnings, nuff said.
You're well in your rights, so what if the other people would take longer to finish and go home, they are not being part of the team by not standing up along with you, YOU are in the right.
If you havnt finished all the work you either all need a warning for not being efficient enough OR the company needs to have more people working the shift, or just pay you for the OT.
Hate people like that at workplaces, iv always left on time without fail, im not working for free. Your employer the type that demands everyone turns up 15mins early etc? Had a job where i got warned by a supervisor because when my shift started in the call centre I couldnt take any calls, as my computer was logging on(it would be painfully slow @ 5pm due to evening staff all logging on at once), i told her where to go when she said I should be there 15mins early so at 5pm I was sat, ready to take calls all fully logged in.
Im sorry pet but i dont get paid for it, and its not my problem if the network isnt fast enough to take the strain of the people all logging on at once at those times
it took me till 6pm one time to log on, first into windows, then through the web interface into another program via citrix 
common sense would be the employer had more people working the shift so that the job was done on time for when everyone's shifts had ended mate.
If you all laze about and dont finish then you get warnings, nuff said.
You're well in your rights, so what if the other people would take longer to finish and go home, they are not being part of the team by not standing up along with you, YOU are in the right.
If you havnt finished all the work you either all need a warning for not being efficient enough OR the company needs to have more people working the shift, or just pay you for the OT.
Hate people like that at workplaces, iv always left on time without fail, im not working for free. Your employer the type that demands everyone turns up 15mins early etc? Had a job where i got warned by a supervisor because when my shift started in the call centre I couldnt take any calls, as my computer was logging on(it would be painfully slow @ 5pm due to evening staff all logging on at once), i told her where to go when she said I should be there 15mins early so at 5pm I was sat, ready to take calls all fully logged in.
Im sorry pet but i dont get paid for it, and its not my problem if the network isnt fast enough to take the strain of the people all logging on at once at those times
I guess it depends whether you classify simply being in the building as work, or actually doing your job as work really.
Neither, Ready to do your job is what id class being at work as
As if i sit down when my shifts starts and log into the computer its not my fault if it takes 30mins for me to log on due to slow network, because that would mean id have to turn up earlier just because the equipment wouldnt be ready for me to use otherwise, and id remain unpaid for this extra time!
Sure its written somewhere that unless you are over 15mins late you are not officially classed as being late or something too, or was that just one handbook i read?
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
In a proper job, yes. In a part time retail job when you get paid the minimum wage, err hows about 'no' to unpaid overtime as a result of management being unable to schedule properly?
I'm sorry but working unpaid overtime to get something done when you get paid £5.53 an hour in retail is something thats done out of respect to your manager and a willingness to help him/her out of a sticky situation. Its not something they can force or even expect you to do.
Later in life, sure. If you are earning proper money in a proper job and something needs doing for a client then hell yea you'll stay but not for minimum wage in a noddy job.
And of course given that retail doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist most retail managers are not managers becuase they posess management skills - usually simply becuase of their length of service.
Oh, and I'm not being holier than thou, becuase I work in retail whilst at Uni (and WOULD stay late but thats becuase my particular manager has nothing but my respect, and I consider them a friend)
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[TW]Fox;10512298 said:In a proper job, yes. In a part time retail job when you get paid the minimum wage, err hows about 'no' to unpaid overtime as a result of management being unable to schedule properly?
I'm sorry but working unpaid overtime to get something done when you get paid £5.53 an hour in retail is something thats done out of respect to your manager and a willingness to help him/her out of a sticky situation. Its not something they can force or even expect you to do.
Later in life, sure. If you are earning proper money in a proper job and something needs doing for a client then hell yea you'll stay but not for minimum wage in a noddy job.
And of course given that retail doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist most retail managers are not managers becuase they posess management skills - usually simply becuase of their length of service.
Oh, and I'm not being holier than thou, becuase I work in retail whilst at Uni (and WOULD stay late but thats becuase my particular manager has nothing but my respect, and I consider them a friend)
spot on, they cant expect brilliant attitudes if they are trying to bully people into working unpaid overtime because they are trying to meet targets and cut costs at the loss of the worker who is already on crap wage.
Neither, Ready to do your job is what id class being at work as
So do I, but we have different standards as to what constitutes ready
Sitting at your desk knowing you've got another 10 minutes before you can actually do your job isn't being ready to do your job IMO, however YMMV of course That depends what constitutes your job, what the general expectations are and so on. If everyone is expected to be ready to take calls at the start of their shift, as that is what they are contracted to do, then expecting people to arrive in time to log in is perfectly acceptable IMO, just as expecting someone to arrive in time to put a uniform or protective clothing on is the same.
That's just a handbook afaik.
[TW]Fox;10512298 said:
Spot on. I'm a manager, albeit in a different industry. I'd take steps to ensure there is sufficient cover to get the job done. If you are relying on peoples good will to carry out expected and forseeable duties you are failing to resource the department properly.
Have half the team start 30 minutes later and finish 30 minutes later to tidy up.
Institute a programme of "tidy as you go" reduce the amount of tidying up required after hours.
Maybe have people come in early to tidy up before the store opens.
Not rocket science is it ?
To the OP, fair play to you. Your supervisor is an ass.
People have lives outside of menial retail jobs and they cannot expect you to put them on hold at zero notice. What if you had an appointment or an engagement at 8.15pm?
You can't expect anything other than attendance at the right times and working to the job description when you pay people minimum wage.
You can't expect anything other than attendance at the right times and working to the job description when you pay people minimum wage.
Then it should be dealt with in accordance with the stores greivence/displinery policy, not zero notice unpaid shift extensions. Especially as its unlikely to be every single member of staffs fault.
It's far more likely that the reason the store is a mess is either unexpected/unforecasted customer levels or poor management with shift arrangements.
That's why there are managers. To manage people to acheive the objective the manager has been set.
If all tasks are not acomplished by closing time who is at fault? The little people, each working in their own area, or the manager who is missing the big picture?
[TW]Fox;10512381 said:
Firstly, would you really take someone down disciplinary procedures without giving them the option of putting it right?
Secondly, zero notice unpaid overtime depends very much on how the contract of employment is written
Quite possibly, but we really don't know as we only have the OP's interpretation of the events.
Probably not, no. However I don't think being 'forced' into staying after the time of your shift is an option, either.
Even if the guy himself had sat on his ass all day and done nothing, it is not the correct way to go about things. Firstly it should have been picked up on earlier in the day, otherwise poor management, and secondly it should be dealt with in a better way than 'Well you can stay behind after shift, so nerr'.
That sort of thing ends when you leave school, where it is called detention. Then it begins again when you get a proper job but is entirely voluntary.