May be in trouble at work

[Andy100]

Even when I worked in retail I'd stay late to help clear up or cash up, I liked the job and the people I worked with even though it was minimum wage.

Sometime's it's not about the money.

I find the same attitude tends to roll over into other aspects of people's lives. A jobsworth is generally the same at home as they are at work.

And yes you can have pride in a job even if it is minimum wage.

 

[sunama]

if i have to clear up for 10minutes extra i dont get paid, i need to stay for 15minutes to get the pay.

you must be a complete **** in real life if you can just leave jobs for other people and not feel bad about it!

Do you work in retail?

Also, by your reasoning, if I were on the till and at 1730hrs and 1730hrs is my finish time, but the queues are long and the store closes at 2200hrs. If the manager forgets to get me relieved I must do my "teamwork" thing and stay till 2200hrs or until the queues are gone. The answer is "no". I will ask to get relieved or close my till up and go home. End of.

If I stayed till 2200hrs, in all probability, I would be told off for staying and at the very worst, I would be told that I would not be getting paid for the extra hours, which they would be within their rights to do.

In larger retail stores, you work till time. In smaller stores, where you will probably have a much more closer working relationship with the rest of your colleagues and a better team spirit, you will probably have to pull your weight and maybe stay a behind a little. However, if you do this, chances are, your deed will not be forgotten. In a big store, it will almost certainly be forgotten.

If a company wants you to stay behind after the store has closed, it must state this in your contract. It cant rely on your good will, especially after you have been treated shabilly by a manager who thinks this you are a school kid, he is the headmaster and you are in detention.

 

[sunama]

Even when I worked in retail I'd stay late to help clear up or cash up, I liked the job and the people I worked with even though it was minimum wage.

Sometime's it's not about the money.

You are right. But what if your manager told you that you cannot go home until everything is done? Then what? What if you were not asked to stay, but were ordered to stay?

If a manager treated me like that I know what I would do. Pride in my work will go right out of the window. Of course, there are people out there who are easily walked over and that is their choice. Dont expect me ever to follow suit.

Of course, in my "proper" job, things are different as that matters to me. A retail job, while studying is totally different.

 

[yer_averagejoe]

So apparently the senior manager - the "head honcho" is on the war path for me. I'm working tomorrow night (teusday night) and He's going to want to talk to me. I'm scared, frankly . Any advice?

 

[Zip]

So apparently the senior manager - the "head honcho" is on the war path for me. I'm working tomorrow night (teusday night) and He's going to want to talk to me. I'm scared, frankly . Any advice?

A swift kick to his nacker bag will stop him from talking for a just that bit longer so you can escape



But seriously, just go with the flow and point out whats in your contract/handbook and if he fires you then take him down with legal action

/would it be illigle to record the convosation?

 

[Andy100]

You are right. But what if your manager told you that you cannot go home until everything is done? Then what? What if you were not asked to stay, but were ordered to stay?

If a manager treated me like that I know what I would do. Pride in my work will go right out of the window. Of course, there are people out there who are easily walked over and that is their choice. Dont expect me ever to follow suit.

Of course, in my "proper" job, things are different as that matters to me. A retail job, while studying is totally different.

Well I think you have to weigh each situation up as they occur. If I was asked to stay for 15 minutes, had no pressing engagements and was getting paid to do it then I probably would. If I was ordered to stay for 2-3 hours with no prior notice then I probably wouldn't.

If you don't care about your job, manager or colleagues then I guess there's no reason to stay.

You will generally find however that no matter what job you're in the only person that likes a jobsworth is the union rep.

So apparently the senior manager - the "head honcho" is on the war path for me. I'm working tomorrow night (teusday night) and He's going to want to talk to me. I'm scared, frankly . Any advice?

I wouldn't worry about it. What can he do? If he fires you you've got a great unfair dismissal claim. Even if he reports you you could speak to HR and get it overturned. Provided of course you are not required to work reasonable overtime in your contract.

 

[Surfer]

ehh? theres tons of advice in this thread dude. You have nothing to worry about. Remain calm and reasonable and you're fine.

record the conversation and upload so we can see how he conducts himself?

incidently in my job, occasionally i will stay after work to finish stuff but it doesnt bother me as its only a few minutes. Most meetings we have are in the mornings so that means overtime for me but i dont complain at being asked to come into these outside of my normal contracted hours. Always get paid for these obviously.

Will also be asked to go to various conferences, meetings round the country and i usually go even though it means getting the 6:50 am train down to glasgow. Its not too often and you get paid for all the time you are on "work hours" (so from 0650 am onwards)
Besides we have good managers - just the other day i wanted to go home early and it was fine no problems Its all about communication and respect. Our managers know when they are stepping over the line (well in most cases anyway)

 

[sunama]

So apparently the senior manager - the "head honcho" is on the war path for me. I'm working tomorrow night (teusday night) and He's going to want to talk to me. I'm scared, frankly . Any advice?

Dude, he cannot touch you for what you did when you finished on time that day. The only problem I forsee is if you have other issues with your work performance. Thats the only angle that he can rightfully tackle you on. If he does tackle you on other issues then you could just say, "Sorry Guv', I will try and improve my performance".

If, however, he tackles you only on what happened the other day, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Be as calm as possible and just explain to him that you were ordered by the manager to stay. You were treated like a child, which you took offence to. Hence, you decided not to stay behind. Also tell him that in future if he wants you to do extra time, to give you as much notice in advance as possible, as you do have other things to do, eg. study for important tests/exams as you are aiming to get a top grade.

Like I said, you have nothing to worry about if they have nothing else on you. If he calls you in and gives you a warning based on what happened the other day, you should have a big grin on your face, because you will lodge your appeal later this week and in a few weeks you will request a written apology from this "head honcho", for not only giving you a warning wrongfully, but also for the fact that his manager kept you locked up in the shop when you wanted to leave (imprisonment). If I were in your position, I would love it, if they gave a warning for what happened that day. You could even book off with stress, get a doctors note - take a couple of weeks off. The possibilities are mind boggling...

Oh and it could be that he just wants to speak to you. You wont need a witness for this, but if he decides to give you a warning, take someone in with you. Make sure you do this.

Another thing, my feeling is that you are worrying about getting sacked - what you did that day is not gross misconduct which means that he cannot sack you for that incident alone.

 

[sunama]

incidently in my job, occasionally i will stay after work to finish stuff but it doesnt bother me as its only a few minutes. Most meetings we have are in the mornings so that means overtime for me but i dont complain at being asked to come into these outside of my normal contracted hours. Always get paid for these obviously.

Will also be asked to go to various conferences, meetings round the country and i usually go even though it means getting the 6:50 am train down to glasgow. Its not too often and you get paid for all the time you are on "work hours" (so from 0650 am onwards)
Besides we have good managers - just the other day i wanted to go home early and it was fine no problems Its all about communication and respect. Our managers know when they are stepping over the line (well in most cases anyway)

Somehow, I dont think you are working in retail or are on anywhere near minimum wage.

 

[Surfer]

Somehow, I dont think you are working in retail or are on anywhere near minimum wage.

Been there done that. Did my stints at a pizza hut callcentre, at a pea factory and as a bt shop monkey and true i was racing for the exit the second my hours were up.


edit: no i dont eat peas anymore.

 

[yer_averagejoe]

Dude, he cannot touch you for what you did when you finished on time that day. The only problem I forsee is if you have other issues with your work performance. Thats the only angle that he can rightfully tackle you on. If he does tackle you on other issues then you could just say, "Sorry Guv', I will try and improve my performance".

If, however, he tackles you only on what happened the other day, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Be as calm as possible and just explain to him that you were ordered by the manager to stay. You were treated like a child, which you took offence to. Hence, you decided not to stay behind. Also tell him that in future if he wants you to do extra time, to give you as much notice in advance as possible, as you do have other things to do, eg. study for important tests/exams as you are aiming to get a top grade.

Like I said, you have nothing to worry about if they have nothing else on you. If he calls you in and gives you a warning based on what happened the other day, you should have a big grin on your face, because you will lodge your appeal later this week and in a few weeks you will request a written apology from this "head honcho", for not only giving you a warning wrongfully, but also for the fact that his manager kept you locked up in the shop when you wanted to leave (imprisonment). If I were in your position, I would love it, if they gave a warning for what happened that day. You could even book off with stress, get a doctors note - take a couple of weeks off. The possibilities are mind boggling...

Oh and it could be that he just wants to speak to you. You wont need a witness for this, but if he decides to give you a warning, take someone in with you. Make sure you do this.

Another thing, my feeling is that you are worrying about getting sacked - what you did that day is not gross misconduct which means that he cannot sack you for that incident alone.

I know, I guess I have the same mindset as you, I am quite looking forward to this as actually. Its just that I'm not experienced and I've argued with him before, nothing quite as serious as this yet I've argued for other employees against him. I tend to get angry and start to shake (hopefully not visibly) and my words muddled. I end up not putting my points across and the whole thing comes off not quite bad but worse than I expect. He always manages to keep his cool and he know that, he uses it in a patronising way.

 

[sunama]

I tend to get angry and start to shake (hopefully not visibly) and my words muddled. I end up not putting my points across and the whole thing comes off not quite bad but worse than I expect.

You have to learn to control this if you are to deal with these types of confrontational matters in the future. It will probably come with age and experience. Just know that shouting, getting angry, etc, doesnt help at all in these types of meetings.

The best way to behave is to be cool, calm and collected. This could make the manager angry and if so, (s)he is more likely to make a mistake during the process, eg. call you a name or shout at you, etc. You want this as the manager is now ripe for a complaint to be made against him/her.

He always manages to keep his cool and he know that, he uses it in a patronising way.

That is why he is the store manager. I presume that he has worked his way up the ladder, so he a lot more experience in dealing with these types of matters and has a fair few more years on you.

 

[[TW]Fox]

And yes you can have pride in a job even if it is minimum wage.

Of course you can. Thats perfectly acceptable. But you cannot criticise those who don't.

 

[do_ron_ron]

The only problem with what is effectively emotional blackmail, as in "not being part of the team" is that any extra work then becomes the norm. In effect, you are subsidising your work by effectively being paid less for the time worked. You are also hiding poor management who should have planned for the work during normal hours. As a part time worker you are more likely to be targetted.

 

[Moogman]

Just my opinion but retailers take the Mic with this sort of thing all the time. If they cant get the work done in the hours of work stated in the contracts and are telling staff they cant go home e until the job is done then thats just poor management. If the staff are slacking off and not getting things done in the day then they should be managed. If all the staff are working full tilt all day and the work is still not getting done then they need more staff.

Retail is a gutty job and the pay is bad. You get what you pay for.

 

[PlatinumFX]

I know, I guess I have the same mindset as you, I am quite looking forward to this as actually. Its just that I'm not experienced and I've argued with him before, nothing quite as serious as this yet I've argued for other employees against him. I tend to get angry and start to shake (hopefully not visibly) and my words muddled. I end up not putting my points across and the whole thing comes off not quite bad but worse than I expect. He always manages to keep his cool and he know that, he uses it in a patronising way.

Whether he's right or wrong, he's going to be better able to argue his points and meet his objectives if he stays calmer. You should just relax safe in the knowledge that you have done nothing that constitutes a sackable offence.

Write it down if you like, but have prepared some key points you want to put to him in defence of your actions. Lack of notice, no extra pay, you had worked hard all day, the contract sets your hours ect. State what you believe caused the over-run in duties past leaving time. This deflects the issue from you (rightfully so, to its true source) and gives him opportunity to address it.

I think its clear to me that this job means a lot to you; if only for the extra income it brings. Consider this though, when seeking under-graduate level internships for my third year of university; employers have no record of my employability in so called "proper-jobs" and thus have to look at my past bar and retail work. Good references from these employers go some way as character references but do also allow you to develop and demonstrate your team work skills, punctuality, maturety, priority-setting ect.

So although the job sucks, is poorly paid and the companies tend to take take take more than most other sectors; if you can strike a balance and be able to defend your position whilst remaining constructive and positive, you are on to a win-win situation. A useful if mediocre income and a good reference.

 

[Hellsmk2]

I wouldn't work past my contracted hours for ANY place that has no problem with locking employee's in to make them finish the job. That's just plain wrong.

 

[Deep]

But... you go to work and do work. Then at your going home time, you go home. Thats what happens when you get paid minimum wage

So now suddenly becuase if for minimum wage I wouldnt work unpaid to tidy up, I'm a **** in real life? Errr ok.

its not what happens when you get paid minimum wage. it normally happens when you dont like the job.

so taking 10minutes out of your day to tidy up and help out your co workers in the morning is wrong?

how would you feel if someone left loads of work for you to do in the morning, in addition to the jobs you already have to do before the store opens?

you wouldn't care as you are getting paid? doubt it

Do you work in retail?

Also, by your reasoning, if I were on the till and at 1730hrs and 1730hrs is my finish time, but the queues are long and the store closes at 2200hrs. If the manager forgets to get me relieved I must do my "teamwork" thing and stay till 2200hrs or until the queues are gone. The answer is "no". I will ask to get relieved or close my till up and go home. End of.

If I stayed till 2200hrs, in all probability, I would be told off for staying and at the very worst, I would be told that I would not be getting paid for the extra hours, which they would be within their rights to do.

that example is complete crap! we are talking about 10 minutes not 4 and a half hours!


In the OP's situation i dont agree with what the manager did at all! treating you like crap is definately not the way to go about it! manager was on a power trip

however a bit of "you scratch my back and i scratch yours" can be a very good thing.

 

[Zip]

edit: no i dont eat peas anymore.

Why not?

 

[sunama]

its not what happens when you get paid minimum wage. it normally happens when you dont like the job.

Right, so I suppose you would find it extremely fulfilling to work in TK Maxx, picking up clothes off the floor and placing items in hangars after customers have left a mess? Generally, the people who are doing this job are doing it for the money and NOT for the job satisfaction.

so taking 10minutes out of your day to tidy up and help out your co workers in the morning is wrong?

how would you feel if someone left loads of work for you to do in the morning, in addition to the jobs you already have to do before the store opens?

I wouldnt mind at all. I have worked in a supermarket before and I dont take things personally at all. If I arrive in the morning to go on the till, say, and a manager discovers a messy aisle that needs sorting out quickly before the store opens, then he would take off 3-4 of us and get us to clean up the aisle. We are paid for this, hence, none of us begrudge doing this work.

you wouldn't care as you are getting paid? doubt it

I wouldnt mind at all.

that example is complete crap! we are talking about 10 minutes not 4 and a half hours!

Its a good example because here we are not looking at the time itself, but the principle. Ive had to exaggerate the example in order to get he point across.

In the OP's situation i dont agree with what the manager did at all! treating you like crap is definately not the way to go about it! manager was on a power trip

however a bit of "you scratch my back and i scratch yours" can be a very good thing.

Correct. Im sure most of us would have no problem doing a favour for a manager who we get on with and makes it worth our while. If you dislike a manager or (s)he treats you badly, then at the stroke of 2000hrs, I am gone. The fact that there is a big mess will have to be explained by this bad manager to his/her senior manager.

You didnt answer my question - have you ever worked in retail at the bottom rung of the ladder?