Mayweather Vs Pacquiao is ON !!!!!

[semi-pro waster]

Your kidding ?

I'm pointing out how facile the statement is, Mayweather is undefeated currently. Until and unless he gets beaten then whether he's just been lucky/smart enough to avoid anyone better or whether he's just that damn fly as to make good/great boxers look average is largely irrelevant except as a stick to beat him with.

I really don't know how you can say that... you seem to be forgetting about (or don't know about) Morales, Barrera and at the time a younger Marquez.

It wasn't really intended as a discussion of the merits of the fighters they've fought, it was to point out that you can argue it both ways. Maybe Mayweather would have lost some of the fights that Pacquiao has fought or lost and maybe he wouldn't, we can't know and except for the hypothesising that is so beloved of many boxing fans we never will know - you beat whoever is in front of you and that's as much as you can do.

 

[jigger]

I'm pointing out how facile the statement is, Mayweather is undefeated currently. Until and unless he gets beaten then whether he's just been lucky/smart enough to avoid anyone better or whether he's just that damn fly as to make good/great boxers look average is largely irrelevant except as a stick to beat him with.



It wasn't really intended as a discussion of the merits of the fighters they've fought, it was to point out that you can argue it both ways. Maybe Mayweather would have lost some of the fights that Pacquiao has fought or lost and maybe he wouldn't, we can't know and except for the hypothesising that is so beloved of many boxing fans we never will know - you beat whoever is in front of you and that's as much as you can do.

So why bring it up ?

My statement is true, Mayweather has never been in with a fighter as good as Manny Pacquiao. Manny Pacquiao has beaten better fighters than Floyd Mayweather. I think your letting the zero loses go to your head.

 

[thedoc46]

Mayweather has not been in the ring with a fighter as good as Manny Pacquiao and thats one of the main reasons he has an undefeated record. Another is as he has aged he has moved up weight / retired and missed the opportunity to fight some very good fighters.

I'm sorry but boxing really isn't your thing is it.. The last fight he took on.. You know Sugar Shane Mosley ??? Name ring any bells??, was as tough of an opponent as Pac-man.. Maybe even tougher given Mosley was a super fast and very strong welterweight and easily in the top 3 pound for pound fighters... Watch the Margaritto fight! Or perhaps the one before, Juan Manuel Marquez, a fighter who matched Pacquaio with a draw and to some may have even won on their 2nd meet. Was completely dominated by Mayweather..

Without Pacman being on the roids, (and i don't even know if he has for sure, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..........) Anyway he probably has a 20% chance at best.

Too small, and comes forward too much and Mayweather will just pick him off.

 

[Smit]

I really don't know how you can say that... you seem to be forgetting about (or don't know about) Morales, Barrera and at the time a younger Marquez.

Morales was shot to pieces and actually beat PacMan in the first fight
Barrera the first time was a decent win the second time meant nothing

Both Marquez fights were extremely close and most major and respected sports writers scored the 2nd fight to Marquez. To say Marquez is a better boxer than Floyd is outright ridiculous IMO

Neither PacMan or Mayweather has fought and won against any big star fighter in their primes. Both have a controversial victory to their names (Marquez and Castillo).

 

[StooM]

Pre mosley I would have said Pacman had a chance to beat Floyd, but having seen how good Floyd can be when he actually fights, rather than waiting for the fight to come to him I can't see Pacman winning this other than with a lucky punch, but given the strength/conditioning of Floyd, the chances of that happenening are next to 0.

I'd say a mid round stoppage for Floyd, or a UD.

Floyd has grown into a genuine Welter and would dictate the fight by taking it to Pacman just like he did against Mosley. Pacman isnt nearly as effective on the back foot.

The thing about floyd is that he knows exactly how to make his opponents fight his fight and knows how to nullify their strategy, something I dont think Pacman could cope with.

 

[Johnnytoxic]

Mosley didn't have the stamina to keep up with the pace for longer than 3 rounds.

If Pac can go twice as long, it may be enough time to get Mayweather in trouble at some point.

 

[StooM]

True, but pac doesnt have the strength to take big hits consistantly.

If he walks onto (and he will) some of the shots Mosley took I think its good night. Floyd doesnt appear to be as feather fisted as he once was which can only be a bad thing for Pac, as although the man can take a punch, can he take them consistently - especially when he leaves himself open going on the front foot himself?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Floyd is a wrecking ball with relentless pace, but every fight he has, he does exactly what he needs to do to win, whether it be go on the front foot/counter punch/in out etc, when was the last time Floyd was made to fight his opponents fight?

 

[jigger]

I'm sorry but boxing really isn't your thing is it.. The last fight he took on.. You know Sugar Shane Mosley ??? Name ring any bells??, was as tough of an opponent as Pac-man.. Maybe even tougher given Mosley was a super fast and very strong welterweight and easily in the top 3 pound for pound fighters... Watch the Margaritto fight! Or perhaps the one before, Juan Manuel Marquez, a fighter who matched Pacquaio with a draw and to some may have even won on their 2nd meet. Was completely dominated by Mayweather..

Without Pacman being on the roids, (and i don't even know if he has for sure, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..........) Anyway he probably has a 20% chance at best.

Too small, and comes forward too much and Mayweather will just pick him off.

Mosley has been in war after war with some of the hardest punching welters in history over what 25 years ? Most of his fights could have taken place in a phone box. He was a tough man but he met Mayweather when he was just too slow.

Mosley is still a good fighter but he was well past his best in that fight. After three rounds he had very little to trouble Mayweather and for me the out come of that fight was just what I expected. If that wasn't such a huge fight for him it would have been stopped so please dont try and make out that was a fighter in his prime.

The Marquez fight was a complete and utter joke. Marquez is a featherweight ! maybe a super feather at the most. But lets have a look at the conditions Matwaether insisted on for that fight and not focus too much on the name.

Marquez moved up from 126 pounds to fight a an established welterweight at 144 pounds at the ripe old age of 36, with 50 + fights under his belt. Marquez had three month to move up 18 pounds keep his speed and try and strengthen up enough to have the power needed to deal with a welter. I could have beat Marquez.

Mayweather didn't even make the weight limit for that fight, he was over weight by an extra 2lb 4 oz ! Marquez had no chance of hurting Floyd Mayweather. He was five years older had 10 more fights, fighting with a 20 lb weight disadvantage and had three month to get prepared.

Please don't look at Maywaethers record and think he beat Marquez ! he didn't. If they had met at 130lb, Marquez would have put him to sleep.

 

[jigger]

Pacquiao would more than likely beat Mayweather and he knows it.

I would say a early KO for Manny would be a very likely outcome and that's why Mayweather keeps avoiding the fight.

 

[Smit]

Pacquiao would more than likely beat Mayweather and he knows it.

I would say a early KO for Manny would be a very likely outcome and that's why Mayweather keeps avoiding the fight.

I would say the complete opposite of that.
Manny would be made to look silly once again.

 

[Jimbeam3678]

once again ? I'm confused? in a serious way ? have I missed something?

 

[Smit]

once again ? I'm confused? in a serious way ? have I missed something?

Yep he looked plain awful and amateurish in 11 out of 12 rounds against Marquez in the first fight was completely clueless on how to cope with someone that actually moves.

As soon as someone doesn't engage with him, he can't deal with it. Slick boxers will always cause him problems which is why he doesn't fight any of them. In the same way that rough brawlers will always cause Mayweather problems and why he doesn't fight those types any more.

They are as bad as each other and like most boxers now have built records fighting numerous pointless fights heavily stacked in their favour.

 

[jigger]

Look at what they both did in the De la Hoya and Hatton fights.

Manny is a much better fighter than what he was in that Marquez fight.

 

[StooM]

The thing is you can't directly compare Pacman and PBF as they fight in completely different ways... PBF was never going to bust up oscar like Pacman did (even taking away the fact that Oscar was like death on legs at 147) and as for Hatton - again you can't compare as his punch resistance was gone after the his fight with PBF. Hatton vs Pacman before Ricky fought PBF would have been a different kettle of fish (with the same result most likely, but it would have been late on).

Manny is a good fighter, of that there is no doubt, you dont get to 1/2 p4p without being one. Its not a case of I think mannys no good, far from it, I just can't see him being better than PBF in any one of speed, power, chin, ringcraft (if thats what you want to call it).

Pre mosley, I would have said PBF will struggle with Pac in a 50/50 fight, post mosley, I'd say its stacked 70/30 PBF. IMO

 

[Smit]

Look at what they both did in the De la Hoya and Hatton fights.

Manny is a much better fighter than what he was in that Marquez fight.

Ok where do I start with this one.

Manny forced De La Hoya to boil down to Welterweight (the LOWEST he had fought in around 9 years) to fight him. So not only was he older but severely weight drained, he had nothing left. I give PacMan zero credit in that fight whatsoever.

Hatton had already been knocked out by Mayweather and his chin was tested again in his next fight against Lazcano and he was hurt bad in that fight against a career lightweight without exceptional power. Hatton's resistance was completely gone by that point. I don't give Mayweather much credit for fighting Hatton at Welterweight neither since Hatton really didn't function well at the higher weight.

Manny is a much better fighter than he was against Marquez

What makes you say this? I would be highly interested in hearing how he is a much better fighter now than he was then considering he hasn't fought ANYONE that comes close to resembling Marquez's style since that fight. He went straight after come forward aggressive fighters. Those fights show absolutely nothing to suggest he has improved since they are against fighters his style is suited to go up against. Put him in with a sharp counter puncher that can move, only then can you find out if he has improved or not.

Boxing is all about styles. PacMan struggles against slick boxers/counter punchers. Mayweather struggles against strong aggressive brawlers.

 

[jigger]

The thing is you can't directly compare Pacman and PBF as they fight in completely different ways... PBF was never going to bust up oscar like Pacman did (even taking away the fact that Oscar was like death on legs at 147) and as for Hatton - again you can't compare as his punch resistance was gone after the his fight with PBF. Hatton vs Pacman before Ricky fought PBF would have been a different kettle of fish (with the same result most likely, but it would have been late on).

Manny is a good fighter, of that there is no doubt, you dont get to 1/2 p4p without being one. Its not a case of I think mannys no good, far from it, I just can't see him being better than PBF in any one of speed, power, chin, ringcraft (if thats what you want to call it).

Pre mosley, I would have said PBF will struggle with Pac in a 50/50 fight, post mosley, I'd say its stacked 70/30 PBF. IMO

Look at the weight Mayweather fought Hatton at. Hatton is a true junior welter and the fight was at 147lb. Mayweather had a big advange and it still took him very late into the 10th to get Hatton out. Manny beat Hatton at junior welter in style and destroyed De le Hoya. Both fights Mayweather had trouble in.

Fair enough, I would say when Hatton lost, his confidence was a little shot. Oscar was well past it in both fights, more so in the Pacquiao fight but thats the best we have to compare the two fighters.

 

[jigger]

What makes you say this? I would be highly interested in hearing how he is a much better fighter now than he was then considering he hasn't fought ANYONE that comes close to resembling Marquez's style since that fight. He went straight after come forward aggressive fighters. Those fights show absolutely nothing to suggest he has improved since they are against fighters his style is suited to go up against. Put him in with a sharp counter puncher that can move, only then can you find out if he has improved or not.

Boxing is all about styles. PacMan struggles against slick boxers/counter punchers. Mayweather struggles against strong aggressive brawlers.

Manny was a very young bantam weight, fighting one of the best lightweight champions around. Its was never going to be a easy fight if you remember he did gave him a lot of trouble and got a draw. Not bad for a skinny kid fighting a seasoned pro.

 

[Smit]

Manny was a very young bantam weight, fighting one of the best lightweight champions around. Its was never going to be a easy fight if you remember he did gave him a lot of trouble and got a draw. Not bad for a skinny kid fighting a seasoned pro.

He was already a featherweight by the time he fought Marquez the first time.

I never said it was going to be easy and yes he gave him trouble in the 1st round, the rest of it he was outboxed easily. The 2nd fight was much closer and could have gone either way. My whole point was Manny struggles against slick fighters, something you haven't addressed yet. So I don't see how you can say Manny is a better fighter now than he was the last time they fought when he hasn't fought any pure boxers/counter punchers since then.

 

[Smit]

Look at the weight Mayweather fought Hatton at. Hatton is a true junior welter and the fight was at 147lb. Mayweather had a big advange and it still took him very late into the 10th to get Hatton out. Manny beat Hatton at junior welter in style and destroyed De le Hoya. Both fights Mayweather had trouble in.

Apples and Oranges.

Pacman is a high energy hard punching machine who goes looking for a KO.

Mayweather is a slick counter puncher who does not engage in his fights. Safety first fighter.

They way they win their fights will obviously be completely different. The fact that Mayweather actually KO'd Hatton showed how bad Hatton's chin actually was by that point IMO. He hadn't stopped anyone in 2 years prior to that fight.

 

[jigger]

He was already a featherweight by the time he fought Marquez the first time.

I never said it was going to be easy and yes he gave him trouble in the 1st round, the rest of it he was outboxed easily. The 2nd fight was much closer and could have gone either way. My whole point was Manny struggles against slick fighters, something you haven't addressed yet. So I don't see how you can say Manny is a better fighter now than he was the last time they fought when he hasn't fought any pure boxers/counter punchers since then.

Sorry I'll go into the weight situation in a little more detail. If you look back at over Pacquiao time he has always struggled with weight. Not being over but under weight, even now Pacquiao has a conditioning team literally following him around and force feeding him.

If you dont know then in a title fight that weight needs to be made up with ballast. Pacquiao was a natural Bantam at that time, facing a great natural featherweight. I'm not suer if you seen that fight but he did give a decent account of himself.

You saying Pacquiao has never faced anyone like him since needs no explaining really. Just take a look at who he has fought since then. He can adapt to anyone it more a case of fighters struggling with him.

You seem to think Mayweather is untouchable, but he has been caught and rocked by many lesser fighters than Pacquiao.