McLaren Honda

andicole0 said:
Current rumour is that Mclaren will take Mercedes engines 'soon' and Honda will move to Sauber. But who knows, McLaren move to Indycar and leave F1 it is where Honda excel.
Andi.
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that rumor changed, to honda taking help from mercedes similar to what Renault did the other year, not a mclaren switch to mercedes.
and sauber taking honda engines

and lol saying look at Williams with fast straight line speed, they have, but thats due to low downforce and as such slow laptimes. look at what they have won recently, oh wait jack all.

beating a factory team is an oddity, and Mclaren know that, they really are stuck between a rock and a hard, and its not just software either Mercedes will get upgrades first, design mountings and engine for their chassis etc.
 
Type_R said:
I very much doubt Mercedes are going to hold their hand and offer any help whatsoever to a competitor.

Hmm let see, we have invested millions of £ in our engine to show the world that Mercedes are the best...which in turn is supposed to sell more Mercedes cars. Now we will just show Honda how to do it so that they can do the same without spending millions of £ (which they already have and got nowhere).

Yes they might not have laughed in their face but it's not like Mercedes offered RBR an engine when they were begging for one!
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And yet when Renault were granted exception to improve their engine in the V8+KERS days, both Mercedes and Ferrari didn't raise an objection. There have been some situations where teams have agreed. Not many, but some.
 
I also doubt McLaren will move to a Mercedes engine before the end of the season. To do so would likely leave Honda without a team until the end of the season. Highly unlikely.

Personally I think Honda will get it right eventually, they're just learning some harsh lessons. If they stay until the new twin turbo formula, a much simpler engine, they could do well.
 
MissChief said:
And yet when Renault were granted exception to improve their engine in the V8+KERS days, both Mercedes and Ferrari didn't raise an objection. There have been some situations where teams have agreed. Not many, but some.
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Is not objecting the same as saying, here come and have a look at how it is done? Not remotely similar.
 
If Honda started supplying another team, like Sauber, it would seem a bit pointless for Honda to let McLaren get Mercedes engines as surely what Honda need is data from as many cars as possible. Having McLaren AND Sauber would give them twice as much data as they have now. Realistically are McLaren that much of a better team now than Sauber as to justify swanning off to Mercedes? McLaren half caused this debacle that they and Honda are in and should allow Honda to supply at least one other team to increase the data Honda have access to in order to give Honda the best chance to improve their engine in the shortest possible time.
 
The issue isn't one of data, it's one of getting the system in place to get the engine and car working out of the box, and Sauber don't have the resources to help with that.

No amount of teams would help with the situation Honda are in at the start of each season. It will help when the cars get running, but the biggest issue is getting them going the moment testing starts.
 
So in effect there's no point McLaren kicking Honda out towards Sauber and getting back into bed with Mercedes then. Are the rumours of McLaren teaming up with Mercedes and Honda with Sauber meant to be a permanent split or just until Honda get their act together (if ever) and then McLaren run the Honda engines again?
 
MarcLister said:
So in effect there's no point McLaren kicking Honda out towards Sauber and getting back into bed with Mercedes then. Are the rumours of McLaren teaming up with Mercedes and Honda with Sauber meant to be a permanent split or just until Honda get their act together (if ever) and then McLaren run the Honda engines again?
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I'm not saying that. I meant that the first thing they have to sort out is ensuring that the engine/car combo works in testing. Once they've sorted out the installation issues (or at least whatever is differing between the dyno and car installation) then they can start working towards performance where the data from two teams will be essential.

As for McLaren-Mercedes I doubt there's any truth in a temporary deal. I can't see Mercedes wanting to give McLaren or Honda full access to their power unit. It is in everyone's interest, Mercedes included, for Honda to gain ground, but Mercedes aren't going to invite a full and intricate examination if a Honda return the following season is on the cards.

A permanent deal? Who knows. I highly doubt Mercedes would allow McLaren to beat them regularly, so in that regard McLaren will be no better off and arguably with less potential for success.
 
MissChief said:
I also doubt McLaren will move to a Mercedes engine before the end of the season. To do so would likely leave Honda without a team until the end of the season. Highly unlikely.

Personally I think Honda will get it right eventually, they're just learning some harsh lessons. If they stay until the new twin turbo formula, a much simpler engine, they could do well.
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The question is with who, I guess - a simpler twin turbo is well within McLaren's ability to build themselves.
 
First day of testing, Hamilton 93 laps, Ferrari appear to have gone mental, 79 for Vettel AND 93 for Giovinazzi, 45 for RBR, 75 for Grosjean, 61 for FI, 96 for Sauber, Williams 77 between them, TR have done 73 laps........ Mclaren.....6 laps, no times.

Looks like Pirelli asked and FIA have conceded to extend testing by 3 hours due to technical issues and 'lack of running'. To me it sounds like only Mclaren have struggled for laps significantly, RBR haven't done great but Renaul, TR both managed significantly more. Makes me think that request came from Pirelli through Mclaren.

I said to my dad that even if Button was going to drive Monaco, the test probably won't help that much because it wouldn't surprise me if Mclaren struggled to do 10 laps in testing... I was kind of joking, but apparently was closer than I thought.

Merc broke down on track in the first hour yet fixed it and went and have done 89 laps so far, Mclaren are just a joke.
 
drunkenmaster said:
First day of testing, Hamilton 93 laps, Ferrari appear to have gone mental, 79 for Vettel AND 93 for Giovinazzi, 45 for RBR, 75 for Grosjean, 61 for FI, 96 for Sauber, Williams 77 between them, TR have done 73 laps........ Mclaren.....6 laps, no times.

Looks like Pirelli asked and FIA have conceded to extend testing by 3 hours due to technical issues and 'lack of running'.
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Vettel is doing a 2018 Pirelli tyre test in the 2nd Ferrari:
18-19th April - Ferrari - Bahrian International Circuit - Dry - With in-season test
 
I don't get why people are surprised. Thes usually very little development possible until the whole circus hits Europe. In some seasons cars haven't changed at all from Australia until Barcelona. Sure Honda are working round the clock but changes will need to be proven more reliable and better than what they've got and that takes time.
 
MissChief said:
I don't get why people are surprised. Thes usually very little development possible until the whole circus hits Europe. In some seasons cars haven't changed at all from Australia until Barcelona. Sure Honda are working round the clock but changes will need to be proven more reliable and better than what they've got and that takes time.
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That couldn't be more silly, the actual cars used in testing and for the most part early in the year are mostly parts probably near enough finished by the end of the previous year. There is development going on ALL the time. You're talking about when new parts get brought to race weekends, those are finished parts, finished parts go through a development cycle, testing is part of the development cycle. They don't stop developing at any stage except the summer shut down.

Most teams would have run plenty of new and different pieces, some minor changes, some big changes to see if they actually work or not.

It couldn't be less accurate to say they is very little development possible before Spain. 98% of track staff have nothing at all to do with design, production and all the in lab testing they do. For every guy working at the track on a race weekend there is 30 staff working back at home base.
 
drunkenmaster said:
First day of testing, Hamilton 93 laps, Ferrari appear to have gone mental, 79 for Vettel AND 93 for Giovinazzi, 45 for RBR, 75 for Grosjean, 61 for FI, 96 for Sauber, Williams 77 between them, TR have done 73 laps........ Mclaren.....6 laps, no times.

Looks like Pirelli asked and FIA have conceded to extend testing by 3 hours due to technical issues and 'lack of running'. To me it sounds like only Mclaren have struggled for laps significantly, RBR haven't done great but Renaul, TR both managed significantly more. Makes me think that request came from Pirelli through Mclaren.

I said to my dad that even if Button was going to drive Monaco, the test probably won't help that much because it wouldn't surprise me if Mclaren struggled to do 10 laps in testing... I was kind of joking, but apparently was closer than I thought.

Merc broke down on track in the first hour yet fixed it and went and have done 89 laps so far, Mclaren are just a joke.
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The request came from Pirelli as Vettel's breakdown prevented them from doing as much 2018 tyre evaluation as they wished.
 
drunkenmaster said:
That couldn't be more silly, the actual cars used in testing and for the most part early in the year are mostly parts probably near enough finished by the end of the previous year. There is development going on ALL the time. You're talking about when new parts get brought to race weekends, those are finished parts, finished parts go through a development cycle, testing is part of the development cycle. They don't stop developing at any stage except the summer shut down.

Most teams would have run plenty of new and different pieces, some minor changes, some big changes to see if they actually work or not.

It couldn't be less accurate to say they is very little development possible before Spain. 98% of track staff have nothing at all to do with design, production and all the in lab testing they do. For every guy working at the track on a race weekend there is 30 staff working back at home base.
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Part of development is validation of simulator and test rig data to mirror what happens on the actual car. You only get that through miles on the car.
 
MissChief said:
Part of development is validation of simulator and test rig data to mirror what happens on the actual car. You only get that through miles on the car.
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I'm not sure what the relevance here is in what you're saying? That is what the test is, part of development, which is what I'm saying. YOu were saying the opposite, that there is basically no development done till they get back to Europe.
 
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