McLaren Honda

Im sure they may have thought about it (Im sure most of the mid grid and lower would have) but cant see them going there currently
Even getting a 2 year old ferrari engine is more likely to get you points over a Honda right now (or a brand new renault for that matter)
 
"We have huge vibrations," added Hasegawa, who says Honda's new engine currently produces "almost the same power" as the 2016 unit.
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This part is pretty worrying, its currently only producing 2016 power, and Ferrari and Merc have improved their power. The Honda engine will never be competitive at this rate.
 
GeezerButler said:
Blimey - sounds like Honda were making a lot of assumptions during development. And do all engine manufacturers develop using mono-cylinder engines and then scale them up to the required number of cylinders? Or am I not understanding what he's saying?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128801/honda-thought-2017-gains-would-be-too-easy
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http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/engine.html

Search for "one cylinder" on that page. Seems that's they way they do it and have for years.

They were aiming to start 2017 with 2016 Merc power levels and presumably they were going to shoot to develop on that over the season. It really is disappointing, they only realised by Xmas. Surely they were working on this not long after testing 2016 and the problems there? Seems this has all been left too late. Unless they are bound by the budget and testing regulations also? Not sure on that. F1 needs another engine manufacturer and one that's fighting near the top. Should make things more interesting. Sadly we just know that this promise of an update in Spain won't change much. It may be more reliable but to be competitive, nah. I can't see the partnership with McLaren lasting passed 2017 and we'll be back down to the usual three with handicapped customer power units and two maybe three teams with the potential to race near the top. Even worse will be McLaren having a customer engine that they won't be able to get the most out of.

They should lean on their road division and come up with their own unit. Surely the technology is relevant.
 
I understand the idea of the mono-cylinder to test their ideas, but surely they should be testing the ideas in a V6 as soon as they're proven? That way they would be able to solve problems like the vibrations they're currently suffering. Although they're well wide of the mark it seems, lightening the engine instead of making them stronger, etc..
 
That article which was posted earlier talked about Red Bull having a full car rig (on stands) to test the engine in a more real environment than simply a dyno.

Hard to know what Honda use, but really all they can do is build a similar test setup and figure out a way to reduce vibrations. Doesn't particularly show forward thinking or planning though :(
 
Ryan-3 said:
I understand the idea of the mono-cylinder to test their ideas, but surely they should be testing the ideas in a V6 as soon as they're proven? That way they would be able to solve problems like the vibrations they're currently suffering. Although they're well wide of the mark it seems, lightening the engine instead of making them stronger, etc..
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They didn't have the vibrations on the dyno though, they only suffered from them when on track when the gearbox is attached and the forces feeding back from the tyres.

As EVH says if other teams have such a solution (Ferrari apparently even adapted a La Ferrari to test their 2014 engine before testing, though ultimately that supposed test engine sounded nothing like the F1 car) and Honda don't then they'll never be competitive. It certainly doesn't help that in attempting to keep as much of their operation in Japan as possible they're struggling to integrate with McLaren at all - fixing that has to be the number 1 priority, not having a B team.
 
I think the lack of integration is the main issue (funny as that's a supposed benefit of being a works team). If Honda want to be successful with Mclaren they need an operations base in UK.
 
Dup said:
They should lean on their road division and come up with their own unit. Surely the technology is relevant.
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well before the honda deal was developed this was supposedly on the cards, but it was pretty quickly rejected.

Now Ron isnt in charge it could be a totally different view point of course but developing their own engine will still take 2 - 3 years before its race ready surely?

Do McLaren use their own engines now (in their road cars), I dont honestly know either way - I know in their first few road cars (F1 I seem to recall for sure) was a BMW unit.

EVH said:
That article which was posted earlier talked about Red Bull having a full car rig (on stands) to test the engine in a more real environment than simply a dyno.
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You probably know more about this than I do, but even a rolling road setup would surely not cause the same vibrations as on track?

(would like to know more about that RBR rig you mentioned as its probably not what Im thinking lol)
 
FrankJH said:
well before the honda deal was developed this was supposedly on the cards, but it was pretty quickly rejected.

Now Ron isnt in charge it could be a totally different view point of course but developing their own engine will still take 2 - 3 years before its race ready surely?

Do McLaren use their own engines now (in their road cars), I dont honestly know either way - I know in their first few road cars (F1 I seem to recall for sure) was a BMW unit.
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Since they launched the 12C they have designed and built their own engines. You're quite right about Ron and also quite right about the time it will take.

Just goes to show how out of touch McLaren seem to be. Sure resources are not cheap and the two brands (F1 and Road) are separate, but it doesn't look good for the brand when they don't build their own unit for F1. More so when they are using an engine that isn't competitive or reliable.

If the Honda unit doesn't come good soon and they do pursue their own PU, McLaren are going to be handicapped in F1 for a number of years.

FrankJH said:
You probably know more about this than I do, but even a rolling road setup would surely not cause the same vibrations as on track?

(would like to know more about that RBR rig you mentioned as its probably not what Im thinking lol)
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An engine dyno has little to no resistance. Strap a gearbox, differential and drive shafts to it and things change. RBR have a rig to test this, Ferrari put the F1 running gear in one of their road car chassis and Honda apparently winged it.

As people have said, Honda should set up closer to McLaren or vice versa to make sure they have these tools available between each other to find these silly issues earlier. Not two full seasons too late.
 
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