*** Microsoft Windows 11 Thoughts & Discussion Thread ***

I leave my TPM disabled so I don't get the popups :) I will eventually move to 11 I guess - my mate actually gives me a key from his work woop. The only version of Windows I've actually bought is 95 OEM :)

11 is poop because they ask for money, have adverts, opt you into all the things until you opt-out, TPM is just a really great way to track everyone. But hey it is what is what it is. That should be the advert: "Windows 11 - Business is business" and then Jerry Seinfeld just exhales air.

Linux can't even adjust my scroll wheel speed so Windows it is.
 
keyser van someone said:
I leave my TPM disabled so I don't get the popups :) I will eventually move to 11 I guess - my mate actually gives me a key from his work woop. The only version of Windows I've actually bought is 95 OEM :)

11 is poop because they ask for money, have adverts, opt you into all the things until you opt-out, TPM is just a really great way to track everyone. But hey it is what is what it is. That should be the advert: "Windows 11 - Business is business" and then Jerry Seinfeld just exhales air.

Linux can't even adjust my scroll wheel speed so Windows it is.
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I've been currently playing with the MSMG Toolkit and made my own version of W11 with all the crap removed.

I have explorer patcher installed.

this is on a VM Ware to test if I want to put it on my main system which is used for gaming and a bit of web browsing.

I have set it to classic right click menus as well.

This is what it looks like now

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keyser van someone said:
11 is poop because they ask for money, have adverts, opt you into all the things until you opt-out, TPM is just a really great way to track everyone. But hey it is what is what it is. That should be the advert: "Windows 11 - Business is business" and then Jerry Seinfeld just exhales air.
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TPM is a slow boil way to remove control from the end user under the guise of protecting them, it'll slowly become more and more "required", more and more intrusive until it acts as a robust DRM for any software run on the PC and for applications to be able to communicate online. It is actively hostile to the end user and will enable vast amounts of power to people who shouldn't have it.

Sadly few will understand what is happening with it until too late, a small number will even give me stick for my comments on it.
 
Cadder said:
What's the answer then? Move to Linux?
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Sadly not much answer unless people stand against it en mass. If/when trusted hardware with Windows became the norm then even Linux would be forced to comply (which would involve running some closed code and vetted) or end up with increasingly more limited features in respect to what you could use the OS for online.
 
What examples are there of TPM being more intrusive as time has gone on? Other than the Windows 11 install requirements needing stuff like it being enabled, but you can then turn off after, I don't know of any consumer apps that must have it as of yet?

TPM has been around a long time and other than a bit of chatter every now and then, it hasn't been a must have enabled thingin anything useful that I've seen yet really?
 
mrk said:
What examples are there of TPM being more intrusive as time has gone on? Other than the Windows 11 install requirements needing stuff like it being enabled, but you can then turn off after, I don't know of any consumer apps that must have it as of yet?

TPM has been around a long time and other than a bit of chatter every now and then, it hasn't been a must have enabled thingin anything useful that I've seen yet really?
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1 year is not a long time, however it was required for a game in 2021 (link). It will only be a requirement for most things when it is commonplace in 10+ years.
 
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mrk said:
What examples are there of TPM being more intrusive as time has gone on? Other than the Windows 11 install requirements needing stuff like it being enabled, but you can then turn off after, I don't know of any consumer apps that must have it as of yet?

TPM has been around a long time and other than a bit of chatter every now and then, it hasn't been a must have enabled thingin anything useful that I've seen yet really?
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As of now it is just a first leg in the door, Windows 11 is the first OS where it has become a "requirement" though you can work around it at the moment - eventually it will be required to be enabled for some features like the Android stuff and will slowly become more and more pervasive - it is a slow boil to push past resistance rather than go straight at it as was tried before.

Article here, bit of a long read and slightly sensationalised, which covers it better than I can https://secret.club/2021/06/28/windows11-tpms.html

EDIT: Another factor here is that Windows 10 is still a supported OS so largely stuff has to work on that, where there is no TPM requirement, as older versions of Windows become increasingly less relevant, the requirement for TPM can become increasingly more common.

Eddie99 said:
1 year is not a long time, however it was required for a game in 2021 (link). It will only be a requirement for most things when it is commonplace in 10+ years.
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Hilarious, and a bit sad, thing is even with all that effort on the anti-cheat it hasn't prevented cheating in the game albeit curtailed some of the more casual cheating compared to some other similar titles. I told their devs not to bother to that extent fairly early on - that for robust prevention of cheating you need to spend that dev time to enable the community with the tools to identify cheaters and remove them from community run servers (or the equivalent - the lobby system, etc. can make it a bit complicated but things like community zoned ban lists, etc. can work) but I wasn't listened to, even laughed at LOL.

Extension of the gaming theme though - TPM allows a developer to decide they don't want their game modded and prevent you doing so locally on your own machine - without the trusted hardware and remote attestation that isn't possible.
 
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Hmm the way things are shifting I can't see it being so invasive years down the line. Some niche application models may well require it, but aside from that I can't see it ever getting a common foothold that turns it into the - But if it does, then by that time hardware will have shifted in multiple generations anyway, there will be other things that are of greater concern no doubt and hardware performance will be orders of magnitude greater anyway as we are currently in a transition phase moving into the new AI/ML era of silicon advancement and all things related to that.
 
Hi All

Ive switched to Windows 11 on the work laptop, all is fine. my only annoyance is that typing "paint" and hitting enter now brings up paint.net, rather than microsoft paint (and they still havent anti-aliased/increased resolution of lines in paint, grr) i now have to click on it in the list.

anyway, i have two PCs that are purely used for games. both are on windows 10, but i just use a local account for them. If i go update to 11, i'll have to move to a microsoft account? i do have one thats used on my old laptop. i assume i can use the same microsoft account on multiple PCs and be logged into them all at the same time?

is it worth updating to 11 for a purely gaming PC?

Thanks
 
champ222 said:
anyway, i have two PCs that are purely used for games. both are on windows 10, but i just use a local account for them. If i go update to 11, i'll have to move to a microsoft account? i do have one thats used on my old laptop. i assume i can use the same microsoft account on multiple PCs and be logged into them all at the same time?
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There are ways around account requirements including I believe using [email protected] for the login - but in the future that might not be so easy - MS increasingly want people to have an online account.
 
Going forwards, the more advanced DX12 stuff is only going to work best on 11 or above, and DirectStorage is only fully utilised on 11 too, whilst it runs in legacy mode on 10. So for gaming it makes sense to update to 11.
 
Rroff said:
Sadly not much answer unless people stand against it en mass. If/when trusted hardware with Windows became the norm then even Linux would be forced to comply (which would involve running some closed code and vetted) or end up with increasingly more limited features in respect to what you could use the OS for online.
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Nothing wrong with Linux :). Been using it for 5 or 6 years now as my daily driver and, while there's a couple of games I own I can't play on Linux (yet), most of them work and I don't have to put up with Microsoft's invasive crapware anymore - other than for work purposes. It all depends exactly what you need your PC for I guess. There's very little I miss from Windows and nothing I can't do without or can't find an alternative for.
 
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mrk said:
What examples are there of TPM being more intrusive as time has gone on? Other than the Windows 11 install requirements needing stuff like it being enabled, but you can then turn off after, I don't know of any consumer apps that must have it as of yet?

TPM has been around a long time and other than a bit of chatter every now and then, it hasn't been a must have enabled thingin anything useful that I've seen yet really?
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Moving your ssd between pc's/mainboards regularly?

I personally feel TPM and security causes more problems than it solves on desktops. It might have a place on mobile devices like laptops, not desktops imho.


Also for work, industrial application or commercial applications, we just continue to use Win 10 enterprise LTSC, whist also moving more and more towards Linux. Lubuntu is popular for kiosks now that .NET Core merged with .NET Framework.
Online accounts are retarded, we have many applications/solutions that are fully offline always ( only a local network application hosted locally in IIS) , only get turned online on demand (physically).

Why windows you ask, because hardware we work with only has Windows support, windows tooling or even just windows server support: E.g. Paxton locks/NET2 software, DOM lock software, SICK sensoring (SOPAS engineering has no Linux version), Zebra (barcode scanners and ticket/receipt printers, only windows tools), list goes on...
 
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Why would anyone other than in niche worktasks be moving OS-installation SSDs between different machines that isn't related to actually upgrading a mobo or PC and keeping the same SSD with OS intact? That is a completely abnormal use case scenario (to move an SSD with an OS on it between multiple machines).

On the other hand, I often use the same SSD whenever I upgrade my system, never had an issue, it just works, with or without TPM. Likewise I have always cloned my OS over to a newly upgraded drive and never an issue.
 
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mrk said:
Why would anyone other than in niche worktasks be moving OS-installation SSDs between different machines that isn't related to actually upgrading a mobo or PC and keeping the same SSD with OS intact?
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Surprised not more people do it, because you have your own OS+software and files easily with you on any pc and don't have to use whatever is already on the pc? Or if you like building pc's and buy and sell them and don't have a ''fixed'' pc for yourself, you just want to boot whatever is avialable on your desk at that moment?
It's actually doable quite easily with a bootable USB drive and an installation that is pre-loaded with many (USB) drivers. The only criterium for booting really is that at the step when windows loads its drivers and moves from bootloader to OS, that it can find/mount the boot drive. If it can't it will BSOD with ''unmountable boot drive''.

Additionally, on sata, a drive configured on IDE/Legacy will usually work on any other mainboard in IDE/Legacy mode, and an AHCI installation will usually work on any other board stuck in AHCI where the same MS AHCI drivers work.
 
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snowdog said:
Lubuntu is popular for kiosks now that .NET Core merged with .NET Framework.
Online accounts are retarded, we have many applications/solutions that are fully offline always ( only a local network application hosted locally in IIS) , only get turned online on demand (physically).
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It is handled a bit differently in business/enterprise versions of the OS but yeah in a business context online accounts are often stupid. We operate quite a bit of closed, offline, production systems, etc.

We ended up moving anything customer facing to some flavour of nix - I'm not really sure of the details as it is outside of my role - Windows 10 was totally tragic in that context with significant numbers of instances of loss of foreground application focus, notifications or inappropriate modal dialogues, etc. which was never an issue with whatever version of Windows they had on there before - I'm not really aware of what went on there but there was some incidents which provoked the movement of the systems to some variant of nix.

snowdog said:
Surprised not more people do it, because you have your own OS+software and files easily with you on any pc and don't have to use whatever is already on the pc? Or if you like building pc's and buy and sell them and don't have a ''fixed'' pc for yourself, you just want to boot whatever is avialable on your desk at that moment?
It's actually doable quite easily with a bootable USB drive and an installation that is pre-loaded with many drivers.

Additionally, on sata, a drive configured on IDE/Legacy will usually work on any other mainboard, and an AHCI installation will usually work on any other board where the same MS AHCI drivers work.
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Can't say it is something I've ever really done - I've a couple of Windows 2 Go builds on USB, one for troubleshooting and another for software/file convenience but mostly I just use a GPD Pocket mini laptop so I have my software and files, etc. to hand within my own control (annoyingly have to use Windows 10 on the Pocket which renders it less useful than it could be - far too many times I've ended up turning to my older Windows 8 tablet because the Pocket is too busy doing whatever maintenance or updates related tasks when I switch it on - and being a portable system used in the wild I don't like to disable too much, like I do on my desktop Windows 10 systems, for security reasons).
 
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