***Midweek Football***(Spoilers within)

Now your just being ridiculous. It was the owners who bought Robbie Keane purely as a marketing exercise to sell more shirts. He had it all, the looks, the charm, the wit. Front cover of GQ, rescuing cats from tall tree's in Stanley Park. A transfer that Rafa had nothing to do with :p

Yeah, he doesn't look like a confused Irishman!
 
Now your just being ridiculous. It was the owners who bought Robbie Keane purely as a marketing exercise to sell more shirts. He had it all, the looks, the charm, the wit. Front cover of GQ, rescuing cats from tall tree's in Stanley Park. A transfer that Rafa had nothing to do with :p

The marketing ploy worked! For years Liverpool have been trying to break the Irish market. I can confirm that an extra 43 Liverpool shirts were sold as a result of Robbie Keane signing for Liverpool. If we weren't in the middle of a recession at the time a figure as high as 51 shirts might have been realistic. :p
 
Liverpool fans can't have it both ways either BaZ

Like you say though there has to be a balance. Do you really think that there was no player out there that could be bought for the £10m mark who could score the goals in Torress absence ?? Liverpool without doubt is a top club for any pro worth his salt to play for. So why would a Bent or a Defoe not want to come to Liverpool. That's just two players. Not marquee players in the bracket of a Torres, Villa, Pato, Drogba, KaKa, Messi mold but two very good players who would still give you change out of £18m to buy a right back.
You're right we can't have it both ways either, and I for one have just said that.

Firstly as I mentioned in my last post, we're not having problems scoring goals in Torres' absence. Secondly, the player's you've mentioned (taking into account add-ons) cost considerably more than £10m. And thirdly, we saw with Keane last season and in less dramatic style, with Crouch previously that not many half-decent player will sit on the bench regularly which they would have been doing when Gerrard/Torres are fit. I've mentioned before that playing the system we do causes us a problem in regards to keeping strikers happy and at the club. Maybe that's something we need to change.

Then you look at Aquialani. Alonso sold. His replacement not touching the first team till only now. Surely Liverpool fans must know that he won't be hitting the ground running till at least the end of Dec start of Jan. Then you factor in that Italian players by and large have flopped in England with the exception of Zola and one good season from Ravanelli. So again it brings a question mark against his transfer dealings.
Aquilani's signing is a difficult one. We've signed a player that the club believe has the ability to replace Alonso and possibly offer us more than he did but he's missed the first 3-4 months of the season. Would have we been better off signing an inferior player that would have been fit straight away? Other than Barry, I can't think of that many decent CM's that were available this summer and according to a recent interview by Rafa, Barry had all but signed only for 'a late change of heart'. Had we started this season well then it's not an issue but the fact that we've struggled has made it a problem.

As Gerrard said in the post match interview, bar Torres, the squad is coming to full strength, so if it's not balanced then surely that's not the fault of Hicks, Gillete or Parry.

As much as he moans about having no money, wait till next year. The early exit from this years CL with the very real prospect of finishing outside the top 4 will mean there is less money again. He's like the boy who cried wolf

I didn't see Gerrard's interview but in terms of match fitness, we're more than just missing Torres. Agger's only just come back from injury (ignoring the knock he got vs City), Johnson's not match fit, neither is Aurelio, Benayoun, Aquilani or Gerrard and then you've got the likes of Kelly, Riera and Babel out too. Even the best squads would struggle with upto 7 of their first 11 either injured or just returning from injury.

Our squad is no thinner than last season, the only difference being is that we never had the same amount of injuries at one time as we've had this season. As I said in my last post, we didn't get the balance of signing quality or quantity right this summer.

Regarding the money issue, according to a leaked document, the club only budgeted to get to the first knock-out round of the CL so a decent run in the Europa League then he'll still get the £23m (that was in the budget too) he was promised ;)

If we don't qualify for the CL (I am sure we will though) then that '£23m' might vanish and he'll have to rely on selling players, like this season.
 
Baz why would you really care what rival fans think. I certainly don't care rival fans not rating Utd players.
I don't care, but the 2 contradictory views Loki's expressed highlight the problem at Liverpool. We have a choice, take a chance on 3 cheaper players or buy 1 top quality proven player.

Prior to the season we signed Torres and Masch, Rafa had chosen to go down the route of signing £5-7m players with varying success (for every Pennant there was a Reina etc). Imo, that way of doing business can only take you so far, and it did, we established ourselves in the top 4 and competed in the CL but (as i said at the time) you're never going to win the League with Peter Crouch as your first choice striker. The last 3 seasons things have changed, we're not signing 7 or 8 players per season, we're signing a couple of proven players and the odd bosman, while sacrafising some handy squad players to fund it.

Last season it looked like we were starting to reap the rewards of a solid squad we'd put together previously and the few top signings we'd made but this season has shown that we were fortunate (even though Gerrard and Torres had their problems last season too) not to have any real injury crisis because the squad was and is too small. Maybe next summer we'll go back down the route of signing a few £5-6m players instead of a Torres, Masch etc because there's no chance we're going to sign 4 or 5 £15m+ players.

Truth is, he has had money, he has spent money, it's not the money that is the issue, it's the quality of player he's bringing in. And it's not always necessarily more money = more quality. Look around at some of the quality players in the league, most bought for relatively low fees. How many of these types of transfers has Benitez made?

You're right, he's had money. IINM, prior to this summer we were the 3rd biggest spenders in the league (behind yourselves and Chelsea) and on the whole, since Rafa took over at Liverpool we've been the 3rd best side in the League too. Although it's not what we want, it's difficult to say that's not reasonably acceptable?

The issue for me is this season. I can go on about how hard done by Benitez is (which im sure some of you think I do) but no matter where the money he was promised has gone, no matter how much bad luck we've had with beach balls and injuries, the money we've spent over the last 5-6 years should have a squad doing better than what it is doing. I've said the same earlier this season and in previous seasons, if by the end of the season we're 10-15+ points off the top of the League or if we don't qualify for the CL then he deserves to lose his job.

As much as I hate to say it, qualifying for the CL and being within 10-15 points of the league is about par for us right now. I know some people love to hate Benitez but I honestly do not believe that anybody can safely say that manager x could regularly better that working within the parameters he is working within.
 
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I'm not sure the details of the Arsenal/Ronaldo transfer but why would Phil Thompson lie about Liverpool's failure to sign Ronaldo?

Admitting that you stalled over a deal to sign somebody that turned out to be one of the best players in the world because he wanted £1m per season and you didn't want to upset Anthony Le Tallec is hardly something you'd make up.
 
As much as I hate to say it, qualifying for the CL and being within 10-15 points of the league is about par for us right now. I know some people love to hate Benitez but I honestly do not believe that anybody can safely say that manager x could regularly better that working within the parameters he is working within.

This is the main issue, he's good enough for that, but if Liverpool want to push to really win the league he's not the guy, will someone do better, you won't know till you try to be honest, thats the way football managers, and players go. Benitez's peak at Liverpool has been and gone, which means do the club want to continue where they are, which will very likely be outside the top 4 from now on, because they don't make the money required to spend every year. Utd have the backing of their owners for spending and sustaining an already better squad. Chelsea, city, well, even if it takes City a couple years and another manager, I can't see them finishing consistantly behind Liverpool, Arsenal are pretty much raking it in, with one of the largest squads and maybe the only team in the league who can fund a new 30million player every year on profits alone.

The thing is, if you start finishing outside the top 4 now, will Torres and Gerrard, Reina and maybe 1-2 others go, if so, you can't afford to replace them, a slip to 5th is a stepping stone to a much larger slip.

Which is why selling Torres/Gerrard at peak values so you can afford to replace them with more players and stop that big slip is a sound financial decision even if not one that will win you the league. You might at this stage wonder which is better, more not so good players, or Torres and not much else upfront. But isn't it fairly clear considering the direction the club is going in at the moment, compared to the situation of having more less good players a few years ago. Hell even with the supposedly terrible Keane last year you were doing significantly better, a better squad is FAR more important than a couple of individuals. Other managers see this, infact almost every other top manager builds teams that way Benitez seems to be the only one who prefers a tiny squad with a couple uber expensive players in. I think theres lots of managers who can do better, the question would be who would come to the club.

Don't quite a lot of players complain about Benitez's "feedback", with quite a few players saying he really doesnt' help them improve at all.



I can't understand the Arsenal game tonight, qualification was all but assured before tonight anyway, it was a completely unimportant game. Firstly why rush Gibbs back in with a heavily bruised foot only a week earlier, give him time, no need at all to rush him back to play a pointless game against a crap team at home. LIkewise the Gallas incident was, bizarre to say the least, this wasn't Arsenal vs Chelsea, he'd taken a big knock on the ankle, almost knocked himself out, staggered to the edge of the pitch and played another what 10-15 minutes? He got injured, no need for him to be on the pitch just get him off straight away. Again not sure why Gallas, Cesc, Gibbs started. Gallas especially played 2 full France games with extra time in one, aswell as the full 90 before and after. I don't think I've ever seen a player come back on the pitch like Gallas did, he was staggering, looked like he could easily fall, wasn't quite there, frankly surprised the 4th official/ref didn't stop him coming on, utter madness.

The lack of rotation and protection is stupid to start with let alone for ridiculously easy and pointless games. I'm still angry Wenger decided to play full strength against Wolves and rest players against Sunderland, reverse the teams for those games and we win both.
 
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I'm not sure the details of the Arsenal/Ronaldo transfer but why would Phil Thompson lie about Liverpool's failure to sign Ronaldo?

Admitting that you stalled over a deal to sign somebody that turned out to be one of the best players in the world because he wanted £1m per season and you didn't want to upset Anthony Le Tallec is hardly something you'd make up.

It is if you want to get your name into the media spotlight by 'claiming' you almost signed the best player in the world, pleases the fans somewhat to make them think your club knew all about him

I just find it hard to believe that despite us having some inside knowledge on Ronaldo when he was at Sporting that if he was really that close to signing for an Arsenal or Liverpool that we managed to come in out of nowhere following a friendly one evening and wrap up the transfer in 48 hours

Same situation with Vidic, I dont believe for a second that he was ever close to signing for Liverpool, in fact I barely believe that there was even any registered contact between Liverpool and Spartak, the papers hear about a player and go and link him with every big club around because if a player is good enough to play for a Man Utd then he's going to be good enough for a Liverpool as well
 
With the scouting networks clubs have, I doubt there's a 14 year old in Nigeria that the top clubs don't know about. I think you're incredibly naive if you believe that only Utd knew about Ronaldo.

I see no reason to disbelieve Phil Thompson over the Ronaldo transfer, like I said, it makes no sense for him to admit to it, especially in the way he did.

Regarding the Vidic transfer, you may not believe it but Vidic admitted it himself not so long back. It happens all the time, no doubt Utd have had players stole from under their noses too.
 
With the scouting networks clubs have, I doubt there's a 14 year old in Nigeria that the top clubs don't know about. I think you're incredibly naive if you believe that only Utd knew about Ronaldo.

I'm not even claiming that we 'knew' about Ronaldo, not considering to the extent that Fergie constantly tells the story of how the transfer all came about

I see no reason to disbelieve Phil Thompson over the Ronaldo transfer, like I said, it makes no sense for him to admit to it, especially in the way he did.

Like I said he needs some kind of semi claim to fame

Regarding the Vidic transfer, you may not believe it but Vidic admitted it himself not so long back. It happens all the time, no doubt Utd have had players stole from under their noses too.

Until I see video interviews with moving lips I believe nothing I read in the media in terms of transfers
 
Yet you dont :p

Not often a player valued at ~£30million is actually worth that much. Wenger is much happier buying 20 African wonder kids. In all honesty hasn't worked out badly, sure we haven't won silverware for 4 years, but we have been consistent always finishing 3rd or 4th. As a business Arsenal is brilliant, growing profits, little short term debt, no billionaire backing (yet). It will be interesting to see if the new ruling about clubs not being financed by their owners, only spending what they earn, comes into effect. Would like to see most of the teams in the Premiership support themselves.
 
If you believe what you read Cristiano was about to be signed up by Arsenal & Liverpool before he signed for us

People will believe what they want in today's media :rolleyes:

Ronaldo and Wenger have both said themselves that Ronaldo had agreed to go to Arsenal before Man Utd offered 3x as much or something, so it's not really that far fetched. If both of them are lying it would be awfully odd (I may have got this slightly wrong it was a while ago)

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-how-close-we-came-to-signing-ronaldo
 
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Gutted Liverpool are out, we'll have to play someone decent in the knockout rounds now :(

I can't see them doing too well in the Europa league either as there are plenty of teams still in it who can beat them easily on their day, FK Ventspils, BATE & CFR 1907 Cluj-Napoca for instance.

Terrific work Rafa, keep it up:)
 
Boo hoo, poor Liverpool. :p

I haven't read the whole thread but what was that all about near the end of the Arsenal match last night? Cesc got yellow carded and a Liege player sent off? Seemed to be an alright performance from what I saw, being on the phone for the entire game. :(

Although when I was paying attention Eboue seemed to give the ball away a few times, great hit from Denilson but I think it was 50/50, I would've fancied Petr Cech or VDS to save that, good of him to get it on target but I think the keeper should have got to it. We really should have scored more but hey, at least we are out of the group phases convincingly. :)
 
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