Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi

groen said:
This is why we should not allow muslims to be within government because they will try and infect the rest of the country with their crazy ideas about religion. Last thing we need is more religion.
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Cor blimey go away for a few months - come back and I immediately see you still are posting nonsense. Good to know nothing changes.
 
RomanNose said:
I don't know anyone who thinks religion has a role in schools, government or public life. Religion to most people is a private affair.
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I think that might be more reflective on your social circle rather than the national opinion though.

RomanNose said:
American politicians are far more religious, they just have a secular structure.
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Indeed.

bam0 said:
I think that's his point, the UK has a more secular society and having an enforced secular government would be a good thing. Disestablishmentarianism is something I support, there shouldn't be a place for specific religious roles in government (Lords Spiritual)
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I totally agree and I even thought this was the case to a certain degree. On actually looking at the reality and seeing how ingrained Christianity was at all levels of government, I was very much saddened and surprised.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
I think when you actually look at the reality, governments such as the US are more secular than us.
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Of course that is the case, it's a core principal in the US. There the society/culture are very religious and the actual government structure is meant to be secular. It's in a way the opposite here, but not exactly.
 
How can it be non sense, I never said anything about pushing islam. I just said pushing religion in general. Just because the middle east is infected with religion does not mean the west has to be. The heritage of the west is actually a battle against religious totalitarianism and conflict that goes back 1000s of years. For a muslim woman to say we need to be a more just society is an insult to western culture. If she wants a more just society she should cover her body and move to the middle east.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Oh dear god :p

Your history isn't very good is it? You do realise we had 9 separate crusades? Christianity has been the backbone of Western politics, government and culture for two millennia.
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To be fair, the entire developing world has had to struggle with religion - dragging an ever decreasing in size part of the population kicking & screaming into the 21st century, the 20th ... 19th... etc.
 
groen said:
How can it be non sense, I never said anything about pushing islam. I just said pushing religion in general. Just because the middle east is infected with religion does not mean the west has to be. The heritage of the west is actually a battle against religious totalitarianism and conflict that goes back 1000s of years. For a muslim woman to say we need to be a more just society is an insult to western culture. If she wants a more just society she should cover her body and move to the middle east.
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She's not pushing religious, she's saying that religious people today shouldn't be afraid to state their beliefs or be proud to be associated with that religion. There is a much greater emphasis on religious people recognising and embracing heritage than there is promoting the superiority of a religious society.
 
Nitefly said:
She's not pushing religious, she's saying that religious people today shouldn't be afraid to state their beliefs or be proud to be associated with that religion. There is a much greater emphasis on religious people recognising and embracing heritage than there is promoting the superiority of a religious society.
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Yes, but I assume this has to do with the recent spat with a councillor complaining about prayers being conducted during meetings (rightly) & a backlash against the idea that religious institutions have no place in our government proceedings (IIRC).

Religious institutions globally are on the decline, much to the fear of some of the followers of said institutions - sadly as they can no longer "burn the heretics" they are trying harder to influence education/children to ensure they have sufficient sheep to herd into the churches to make donations.

The institutions have always been about money, I can't believe people can be so blind to this (not saying the individuals are - just the institutions).
 
Burnsy2023 said:
I hate to break this to you, but we are far removed from a secular society. You do realise parliament prays before session and the head of state of also the head of a church?
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I don't think a group of 600 or so people carrying out an age old tradition is evidence of a non secular society.
 
Obviously being somewhat secular myself I could be biased here but it does seem to me that this is nothing more than a backlash against the fact that religion is losing its special status rather than religion itself being attacked.
 
No, religious people should be ashamed in this day age in to be associated with religious beliefs. Especially people who work in a scientific field or a hold a high position within government. Religious belief has no place in a modern western society and the anti-religious atheist will not stop the fight against irrationality and the evil that is religion, just because they moan about it and make up terms like militant secularisation. o/ :D
 
groen said:
No, religious people should be ashamed in this day age in to be associated with religious beliefs. Especially people who work in a scientific field or a hold a high position within government. Religious belief has no place in a modern western society and the anti-religious atheist will not stop the fight against irrationality and the evil that is religion, just because they moan about it and make up terms like militant secularisation.
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Ashamed, that is a bit strong. At the end of the day everyone should be free to follow a religion of they wish.
 
bluDawg said:
Evolution is a load of bull, there is no proof that what they say is real so it shouldn't be taught as fact, or pushed down children's throats when they are young as they are more easily influenced. If you want to be non religious you should look into it in later life by your own choice in my opinion.
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Fixed for fairness and equality :p, and besides, both origins of life are theories, don't get your knickers in a twist :D
 
OldCoals said:
I don't think a group of 600 or so people carrying out an age old tradition is evidence of a non secular society.
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Let's take a look at wiki's definition:

Secularism is the concept that government or other entities should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs
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So if we take into consideration the following:
  1. The Queen is head of the Chrish of England as well as head of state
  2. Prayers are a formal part of parliament
  3. 26 Bishops being members of the house of lords

I think we can quite happily say that our government is far from secular.
 
kedge said:
Fixed for fairness and equality :p, and besides, both origins of life are theories, don't get your knickers in a twist :D
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Evolution is proven, you can actually see it happen and you don't understand the definition of a scientific theory. A scientific theory is not the same as what is commonly used as a theory, which scientists would refer to as a hypothesis.
 
kedge said:
Fixed for fairness and equality :p, and besides, both origins of life are theories, don't get your knickers in a twist :D
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You don't what "theory" means in regards to a scientific theory.

Do you feel the same way about the theory of gravity?.

Also, +1 to RDM's comment.

If I hear the line "EVOLUTION IS JUST A THEORY LOL" again, I think my brain will erode.

Evolution has hundreds of thousands of multi-supporting pieces of evidence behind it.

Intelligent design (poor choice of words if you ask me) or the biblical creation story have no evidence at all to support them.

That is the difference.
 
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